May 1, 2012, at 5:04 PM
Present:
J.F. Fontana, B. Polhill, W.J. Armstrong, J.B. Swan, S. Orser, J.L. Baechler, N. Branscombe, M. Brown, P. Hubert, D.G. Henderson, P. Van Meerbergen, D. Brown, H.L. Usher, J.P. Bryant, S.E. White, C. Saunders
Also Present:
J. Braam, M. Hayward, R. Armistead, J.P. Barber, J.M. Fleming, E. Gamble, G.T. Hopcroft, T.A. Johnson, G. Kotsifas, B. Kritchker, B. Henry, D. Huggins, I. Listar, V. McAlea Major, E. Mogck, D. Mounteer, J. Page, L.M. Rowe, R. Sharpe, M. Turner, B. Warner, B. Westlake-Power
The Council meets in Regular Session in the Council Chambers this day at 5:04 PM
I. RECOGNITIONS
1. Councillor White
and Councillor Swan - Review of Council and Standing Committee Schedule
2. “Hire One”
Initiative
3. Timelines -
Expression of Interest - Economic Development Initiatives
That the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to make the necessary arrangements to hold a Special Investment and Economic Prosperity Committee meeting on Saturday, June 9, 2012 to receive Expressions of Interest from the community with respect to economic prosperity initiatives.
4. Building Division
Monthly Report for February 2012
That the Building Division Monthly Report for February 2012 BE RECEIVED.
II. DISCLOSURES
OF PECUNIARY INTEREST
VIII. REPORTS
(CONTINUED)
Moved by Councillor M. Brown
Approve Clauses 1 to 6, inclusive.
Motion Passed
Vote:
Yeas: J.F. Fontana B. Polhill W.J. Armstrong J.B. Swan J.L. Baechler N. Branscombe M. Brown P. Hubert D.G. Henderson P. Van Meerbergen D. Brown H.L. Usher J.P. Bryant (13)
Motion Passed
Clauses 1 to 6, inclusive, read as follows:
No pecuniary interests are disclosed.
That the 3rd Report of the London Housing Advisory Committee, from its meeting held on April 11, 2012, BE RECEIVED.
5. Emerald Ash Borer -
Tobin Court
That, the following actions be taken with respect to the concerns raised by the Westmount Rate Payers Association with respect to London’s emerald ash borer strategy and implementation of the program: a) a moratorium BE PLACED on the cutting of ash trees, unless they pose a safety hazard, until such time as the Civic Administration reports back on the communications dated April 9, March 27 and April 16, 2012, from the Westmount Rate Payers Association; it being noted that the Civic Administration met with the Westmount Rate Payers Association on March 14, 2012 to discuss and respond to the issues and those comments will be included in the Civic Administration’s response back; and, b) a special meeting of the Planning and Environment Committee BE HELD on Tuesday, May 1, 2012, to receive a legal opinion on the proposed moratorium on tree cutting; it being noted that the Planning and Environment Committee heard the attached presentation and reviewed and received communications, dated April 9 and March 27, 2012, and the attached communication, dated April 16, 2012, from the Westmount Hills Residents Association, with respect to this matter.
9. Amend Section 4.14
of Zoning By-law No. Z.-1 (Z-7891)
That, on the recommendation of the Director of Land Use Planning and City Planner, the attached, revised, proposed by-law BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on May 1, 2012 to amend Zoning By-law No. Z.-1, (in conformity with the Official Plan), to change Zoning By-law Z.-1 Section 4.14 as follows: a) deleting the last paragraph of Section 4.14; and, b) inserting in its place, “In the case of a road widening dedication, the land that will be dedicated shall be included in any calculation for the purpose of determining lot area, coverage, height, parking, landscaped open space, floor area, floor area ratio and density provided any building or structure is located wholly within the boundary of the land remaining after the dedication”; it being pointed out that there were no oral submissions made at the public participation meeting held in connection with this matter. (2012-D11-02)
XIII. COMMITTEE
OF THE WHOLE, IN CAMERA (continued)
MOTION FOR IN CAMERA SESSION
Moved by Councillor B. Polhill
Seconded by Councillor D. Brown
Approve that Council rise and go into Committee of the Whole, in camera for the purpose of considering the following:
Moved by Councillor S. Orser
Seconded by Councillor D. Brown
Vote:
Yeas: J.F. Fontana B. Polhill W.J. Armstrong J.B. Swan S. Orser J.L. Baechler N. Branscombe M. Brown P. Hubert D.G. Henderson P. Van Meerbergen D. Brown H.L. Usher J.P. Bryant S.E. White (15) The Council rises goes into Committee of the Whole in camera at 11:55 PM with J. Fontana in the Chair all Members present. The Committee of the Whole rises Council resumes in public session at 12:29 AM. Motion made by S. Orser seconded by D. Brown to Approve that Council rise go into Committee of the Whole in camera for purpose of considering a matter pertaining to legal advice that is subject to solicitor-client privilege including communications necessary for that purpose in connection with a legal opinion sought by the Planning Environment Committee arising from a delegation by the Westmount Hills Residents
Motion Passed
8th Report of the Committee of the Whole Councillor D.G. Henderson presents
III. CONFIRMATION
AND SIGNING OF THE MINUTES OF THE SEVENTH MEETING HELD ON APRIL 10 AND 11, 2012
Moved by Councillor D. Brown
Seconded by Councillor J.P. Bryant
Approve the Minutes of the Seventh Meeting held on April 10 and 11, 2012.
Motion Passed
Vote:
Yeas: J.F. Fontana W.J. Armstrong J.B. Swan J.L. Baechler N. Branscombe M. Brown P. Hubert D.G. Henderson P. Van Meerbergen D. Brown H.L. Usher J.P. Bryant (12)
Motion Passed
IV. REVIEW
OF CONFIDENTIAL MATTERS TO BE CONSIDERED IN PUBLIC
V. COMMUNICATIONS
AND PETITIONS
VI. MOTIONS
OF WHICH NOTICE IS GIVEN
VII. ADDED
REPORTS
6. Northridge Village
Phase II Subdivision (39T-11501)
That, on the recommendation of the Senior Planner, Development Services, the following actions be taken with respect to entering into a subdivision agreement between The Corporation of the City of London and Tridon Properties Limited, for the subdivision of land over Part of Lot 10, Concession 5, (Geographic Township of London), City of London, County of Middlesex, situated on the west side of Stackhouse Avenue, on the north side of Fanshawe Park Road West, municipally referred to as 1100 Fanshawe Park Road East: a) the attached, revised, Special Provisions, to be contained in a Subdivision Agreement between The Corporation of the City of London and Tridon Properties Limited for the Northridge Village Phase 2 (39T-11501) BE APPROVED; b) the financing for the project BE APPROVED in accordance with the “Sources of Financing Report” provided as Appendix ‘A’ to the associated staff report, dated March 30, 2012; c) the Mayor and the City Clerk BE AUTHORIZED to execute the subject Subdivision Agreement, any amending agreements and all documents required to fulfill its conditions; and, d) the financing for the project BE APPROVED in accordance with the “Estimated Claims and Revenues Report” provided as Appendix ‘B’ to the associated staff report, dated March 30, 2012; it being noted that the Planning and Environment Committee heard verbal presentations from P. Hine and D. De Jong, Tridon Properties Limited and J. Ross, 1150 Fanshawe Park Road East, with respect to this matter. (2012-D26-06)
7. Shaver-Brockley
Coalition
That, the following actions be taken with respect to the request of the Shaver-Brockley Coalition for the implementation of a South Central Area Plan: a) the Civic Administration BE REQUESTED to report back at a future meeting of the Planning and Environment Committee, after meeting with the area residents, regarding the options available, either through a separate area study or as part of the Official Plan review, including the staff resources required to undertake the work; and, b) the Civic Administration BE REQUESTED to consider options that can be brought forward as part of the Southwest Area Plan to address the community concerns raised by the residents of the Shaver-Brockley Coalition; it being noted that the Planning and Environment Committee heard verbal presentations from Roma-Lynn Gillis and David Gillis, 2753 Dingman Drive and Alan Tipping, 2809 Dingman Drive and reviewed and received a communication, dated March 29, 2012, from the Shaver-Brockley Coalition, with respect to this matter. (D-012-D11-09)
8. Properties located
at 176 and 184 Rectory Street (OZ-7999)
That, on the recommendation of the Director of Land Use Planning and City Planner, the following actions be taken with respect to the application of Knutson Development Consultants Limited relating to the properties located at 176 and 184 Rectory Street: a) the attached proposed by-law BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on May 1, 2012 to amend the Official Plan to change the existing “Low Density Residential” designation of the subject lands by ADDING a special policy in Chapter 10 - “Policies for Specific Areas” to permit a ‘rental and repair establishment’, including the repair, maintenance and provision of filters for HVAC equipment; and, b) the attached proposed by-law BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on May 1, 2012 to amend Zoning By-law No. Z.-1, (in conformity with the Official Plan, as amended in part a) above), to change the zoning of the properties located at 176 and 184 Rectory Street FROM a Residential (R3-2) Zone, which permits single detached dwellings, semi-detached dwellings, duplex dwellings, triplex dwellings, converted dwellings and fourplex dwellings TO a Residential/Light Industrial Special Provision (R3-2/LI8( )) Zone, to recognize existing industrial uses and add ‘repair and rental establishment’ to the list of permitted uses; it being pointed out that there were no oral submissions made at the public participation meeting held in connection with this matter. (2012-D11-04)
10. Properties located
at 497-499 Central Avenue (Z-8008)
That, on the recommendation of the Director, Land Use Planning and City Planner, the following actions be taken with respect to the application of Filipe Abrantes and Daniel McFadden relating to the property located at 497-499 Central Avenue: a) the attached, revised, proposed by-law BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on May 1, 2012 to amend Zoning By-law No. Z.-1, (in conformity with the Official Plan), to change the zoning of the subject property FROM a Residential R3 (R3-2) Zone, which permits single detached dwellings, semi-detached dwellings, duplex dwellings, triplex dwellings, converted dwellings, and four-plex dwellings TO a Residential R3 Special Provision (R3-2( )) Zone, to permit the above listed uses and add a multiple dwelling with a maximum of 5-dwelling units as a permitted use and regulations that: limit the maximum number of bedrooms per unit to 3; permit a maximum of two, 3-bedroom dwelling units; permit a minimum lot area of 600m2; permit a minimum lot frontage of 15.0m; permit a minimum east exterior side yard of 3.6m; permit a minimum rear yard of 6.0m; permit a minimum west interior side yard of 3.0m; permit a minimum landscaped open space coverage of 30%; permit a maximum lot coverage of 44%; permit a maximum height of 12.0m; permit a maximum parking area coverage of 25%; limit the maximum setback from Central Avenue to 1.0m; with a minimum of 1 parking space per dwelling unit as a special provision to the zone; b) the Site Plan Approval Authority BE REQUESTED to consider the following design issues through the site plan process: i) the construction of a specified building design which is in accordance with the illustrations included as Appendix “B”; ii) existing brick to be reused on proposed new building; iii) existing roof pitches to be replicated (with the exception of the existing front gables); and, iv) windows to be of a 6 over 6 design with a wood clad finish; it being pointed out that at the public participation meeting associated with this matter, the following individuals made oral submissions in connection therewith: - Filipe Abrantes, co-owner – expressing support for the application; advising that the owners have worked closely with Mr. Wes Kinghorn, the London Advisory Committee on Heritage and D. Menard, Heritage Planner on this application; and that they are making the building use legal. - Barry Francis, 503 Central Avenue – expressing concern with the number of units and the amount of parking; indicating that parking on lawns in this area is a frequent occurrence; and advising that there is not enough parking for the number of units in this building. - Gord Hale, 66 Palace Street – advising that parking is a big deal; indicating that there are constantly vehicles parked all over the property; advising that it is an absolute mess; indicating that the property needs more than four parking spots. - Wes Kinghorn, President, Woodfield Community Association – advising that Woodfield is in the top 8 of the best neighbourhoods in the country; advising that the house is a hazard; indicating that the saving of houses is a top priority of the Woodfield Community Association; advising that the developer worked with the community; advising that both sides have compromised; indicating that the owners will be using the brick from the current residence; advising that streetscapes are an important part of a Heritage Conservation District; indicating that East Woodfield is one of the best examples of Victorian architecture; indicating that the building is currently a fiveplex; advising that they achieved an answer that is profitable for the developer, satisfies the community and is a win-win situation for everyone. - Admar, 555 York Street – indicating that they have five parking spots on the lot as they will be using the garage on the lot; advising that there are three-one bedroom units and two-two bedroom units. (2012-D11-03)
11. ReThink London
That the ReThink London event to be held on May 3, 2012 BE NOTED.
13. 2012 Infrastructure
Lifecycle Renewal Program, Contract #5: Talbot and Barton Streets Reconstruction (Tender No. 12-33)
That, on the recommendation of the Acting Executive Director, Planning, Environmental and Engineering Services and City Engineer, the following actions be taken with respect to the contract award for the 2012 Lifecycle Renewal Program, Contract #5, for the Talbot Street and Barton Street reconstruction project (ES2414-12, EW3787-11, TS1446-12, TS4067-12): a) the bid submitted by Bre-Ex Limited (Bre-Ex), 247 Exeter Road, London, Ontario, N6L 1A5, at its corrected tendered price of $3,021,916.27, excluding H.S.T., for the 2012 Infrastructure Lifecycle Renewal Program, Contract #5 project, BE ACCEPTED; it being noted that the bid submitted by Bre-Ex was the lowest of eight (8) bids received and meets the City’s specifications and requirements in all areas; b) Spriet Associates London Limited, 155 York Street, London, Ontario, N6A 1A8, BE AUTHORIZED to complete the remainder of design and to carry out the resident inspection and contract administration for the said project in accordance with the estimate, on file, at an upset amount of $267,399.00, excluding H.S.T., it being noted that this firm completed the engineering design, based upon the Fee Guideline for Professional Engineering Services, recommended by the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers, and in accordance with Section 15.2 (g) of the City of London’s Procurement of Goods and Services Policy; c) the financing for this project BE APPROVED as set out in the Sources of Financing Report included as Appendix “A” to the associated staff report, dated April 23, 2012; d) the Civic Administration BE AUTHORIZED to undertake all the administrative acts that are necessary in connection with this project; e) the approval hereby BE CONDITIONAL upon the Corporation entering into a formal contract or issuing a purchase order for the material to be supplied and the work to be done relating to this project (Tender 12-33); and, f) the Mayor and the City Clerk BE AUTHORIZED to execute any contract or other documents, if required, to give effect to these recommendations. (2012-S07-00)
15. 2012 Infrastructure
Lifecycle Renewal Program, Contract #9: Burnside Drive Reconstruction (Tender No. 12-49)
That, on the recommendation of the Acting Executive Director, Planning, Environmental and Engineering Services and City Engineer, the following actions be taken with respect to the contract award for the 2012 Lifecycle Renewal Program, Contract #9, for the Burnside Drive reconstruction project (ES2414-12, EW3765-11, TS3014-12 & TS3037-12): a) the bid submitted by Robuck Contracting, 2326 Fanshawe Park Road East, London Ontario, N5X 4A2, at its tendered price of $1,480,000.00, excluding H.S.T., for the 2012 Infrastructure Lifecycle Renewal Program, Contract #9 project, BE ACCEPTED; it being noted that the bid submitted by Robuck Contracting was the lowest of eight (8) bids received and meets the City’s specifications and requirements in all areas; b) the financing for this project BE APPROVED as set out in the Sources of Financing Report included as Appendix “A” to the associated staff report, dated April 23, 2012; c) the Civic Administration BE AUTHORIZED to undertake all the administrative acts that are necessary in connection with this project; d) the approval hereby BE CONDITIONAL upon the Corporation entering into a formal contract or issuing a purchase order for the material to be supplied and the work to be done relating to this project (Tender 12-49); and, e) the Mayor and the City Clerk BE AUTHORIZED to execute any contract or other documents, if required, to give effect to these recommendations. 2012-S07-00)
17. Solid Waste
Management Updates
That the report dated April 23, 2012, from the Director, Environmental Programs and Solid Waste, with respect to solid waste management updates BE RECEIVED for information; it being noted that the Civic Works Committee heard the attached presentation from the Director, Environmental Programs and Solid Waste, with respect to this matter.
18. Request
for Annual General Meeting
12. Fanshawe Park Road
and Highbury Avenue Intersection Widening (Tender No. 12-28)
That, on the recommendation of the Acting Executive Director, Planning, Environmental and Engineering Services and City Engineer, the following actions be taken with respect to the contract award for the Fanshawe Park Road and Highbury Avenue intersection widening (TS1475): a) the bid submitted by J-AAR Excavating Limited, 31 Exeter Road, London, Ontario, N6L 1B6, at its modified tendered price of $7,281,047.30, excluding H.S.T., for the Fanshawe Park Road and Highbury Avenue intersection widening project, BE ACCEPTED; it being noted that the bid submitted by J-AAR Excavating Limited was the lowest of five (5) bids received and meets the City’s specifications and requirements in all areas; b) Delcan Corporation, 1069 Wellington Road South, Suite 214, London, Ontario, N6E 2H6, BE APPOINTED Consulting Engineers for the contract administration and resident supervision of the said project in the amount of $432,608, excluding H.S.T., in accordance with Section 15.2 (g) of the Procurement of Goods and Services Policy; c) the consulting fee for the project identified in (b), above, which is in accordance with the estimate on file, and which is based upon the Fee Guideline for Professional Engineering Services recommended by the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers BE APPROVED; d) future additional Transportation annual operating costs of $12,550, Water annual operating costs of $1,800, and Sewer annual operating costs of $1,000 BE APPROVED, as a first priority commitment from available assessment growth in 2013, subject to final budget approval; e) the financing for this project BE APPROVED as set out in the Sources of Financing Report included as Appendix “A” to the associated staff report, dated April 23, 2012; f) the Civic Administration BE AUTHORIZED to undertake all the administrative acts that are necessary in connection with this project; g) the approval hereby BE CONDITIONAL upon the Corporation entering into a formal contract and issuing purchase order(s) for the material to be supplied and the work to be done relating to this project (Tender 12-28); h) the Mayor and the City Clerk BE AUTHORIZED to execute any contract or other documents, if required, to give effect to the above recommendations. (2012-S09-02)
14. A.J. Tyler
Water and Sewer Building Interior Fit Out - Project No. TS6200-12/ES2071/ES5164/EW3105 (Tender No. 12-34)
That, on the recommendation of the Managing Director, Corporate Assets and the Acting Executive Director, Planning, Environmental and Engineering Services and City Engineer, the following actions be taken with respect to the A.J. Tyler water and sewer building interior fit out project: a) the bid submitted by Cobrell Company Ltd., 4837 White Oak Road, London, Ontario, N6E 3V7, at its tendered price of $1,007,588.00, excluding H.S.T., for the A.J. Tyler water and sewer building interior fit out BE ACCEPTED; it being noted that the bid submitted by Cobrell Company Ltd., was the lowest of six (6) bids received and meets the City’s specifications and requirements in all areas; b) the financing for this project BE APPROVED as set out in the Sources of Financing Report included as Appendix “A” to the associated staff report, dated April 23, 2012; c) the Civic Administration BE AUTHORIZED to undertake all the administrative acts which are necessary in connection with this project; d) the approval hereby BE CONDITIONAL upon the Corporation entering into a formal contract with the contractor for the work; and, e) future additional annual operating costs of $22,000 BE CONSIDERED as a first priority from available assessment growth in 2013 subject to final budget approval. (2012-A09-00)
16. 2012 Infrastructure
Lifecycle Renewal Program, Phase ll Horton Reconstruction (Tender No. 12-29)
That, on the recommendation of the Acting Executive Director, Planning, Environmental and Engineering Services and City Engineer, the following actions be taken with respect to the contract award for the 2012 Infrastructure Lifecycle Renewal Program, for Phase II of the Horton Street reconstruction project (TS1446-12, TS1444, ES2464-11, ES2414-12, EW3787-12): a) the bid submitted by Tri-Con Excavating Incorporated (Tri-Con), 113-4023 Meadowbrook Drive, London, Ontario, N6L 1E7, at its tendered price of $4,675,170.55, excluding H.S.T., for Phase II of the Horton Street reconstruction project, BE ACCEPTED; it being pointed out that the bid submitted by Tri-Con was the lowest of seven (7) bids received and meets the City’s specifications and requirements in all areas; b) Archibald, Gray and McKay Engineering Limited (AGM), 3514 White Oak Road, London Ontario, N6E 2Z9, BE AUTHORIZED to carry out the resident inspection and contract administration for the said project in accordance with the estimate, on file, at an upset amount of $413,820.00, excluding H.S.T.; it being noted that this firm completed the engineering design, based upon the Fee Guideline for Professional Engineering Services, recommended by the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers, and in accordance with Section 15.2 (g) of the City of London’s Procurement of Goods and Services Policy; c) minor future additional annual operating costs of $1,100.00 BE RECOGNIZED as a result of this project; it being noted that these costs are a result of new infrastructure installation and will be considered and accommodated within future Wastewater and Treatment operating budgets; d) future additional annual operating costs of $37,000.00 BE RECOGNIZED as a result of this project; it being noted that these costs are a result of new infrastructure installation and will be considered and accommodated within future Parks Operations operating budgets; e) the SoHo Community Improvement Plan recommendations for streetscape improvements on Horton Street BE APPROVED for implementation with this infrastructure project; it being noted that on June 20, 2011, the Municipal Council resolved that streetscape enhancements, consistent with the SoHo Community Improvement Plan, be included in the scope of the pending Horton Street reconstruction project and that funding enhancements given a high priority for approval; f) the financing for this project BE APPROVED as set out in the Sources of Financing Report included as Appendix “A” to the associated staff report, dated April 23, 2012; g) the Civic Administration BE AUTHORIZED to undertake all the administrative acts that are necessary in connection with this project; h) the approval hereby BE CONDITIONAL upon the Corporation entering into a formal contract or issuing a purchase order for the material to be supplied and the work to be done relating to this project (Tender 12-29); and, i) the Mayor and the City Clerk BE AUTHORIZED to execute any contract or other documents, if required, to give effect to these recommendations; and, it being noted that the Civic Works Committee heard the attached presentation from J. Yanchula, Manager, Community Planning and Urban Design, M. Tomazincic, Planner II and U. DeCandido, Environmental Service Engineer, and received the following communications with respect to this matter:
W. Russell, 285 Simcoe Street, dated April 19, 2012; M. D. Woodward, 142 Waterloo Street, dated April 20, 2012; E. Innes, Simcoe Street, dated April 20, 2012; A. Gibb, 19-374 Simcoe Street, dated April 22, 2012; N. Hamm, by e-mail, dated April 20, 2012; and, J. Verdam-Woodward, 142 Waterloo Street, dated April 23, 2012. (2012-S07-00)
20. Central Thames Subwatershed Study Update
19. Traffic Concerns in
the Blackacres Boulevard and Yew Tree Gardens Area
That, the request for delegation status from S. Craig, 281 Blackacres Boulevard, with respect to the traffic safety concerns in the Blackacres Boulevard and Yew Tree Gardens area, BE DENIED; it being noted that the Civic Works Committee asked that the Civic Administration meet with Mr. Craig and the neighbourhood group to address this matter. (2012-S09-00) Motion Failed
Moved by Councillor M. Brown
Seconded by Councillor P. Hubert
Approve that the Civic Works Committee BE REQUESTED to receive a delegation from Steven Craig on behalf of the Blackacres Boulevard and Yew Tree Garden neighbourhood at their meeting of May 14, 2012, with respect to traffic safety issues; it being noted that delegations shall speak no longer than a 5 minute period, without leave of the Committee.
Motion Passed
Vote:
Yeas: J.F. Fontana B. Polhill W.J. Armstrong J.B. Swan S. Orser J.L. Baechler N. Branscombe M. Brown P. Hubert D.G. Henderson P. Van Meerbergen D. Brown H.L. Usher J.P. Bryant S.E. White (15)
Motion Passed
Moved by Councillor B. Polhill
Approve clauses 1 to 11, inclusive.
Motion Passed
Vote:
Yeas: J.F. Fontana B. Polhill W.J. Armstrong J.B. Swan S. Orser J.L. Baechler N. Branscombe M. Brown P. Hubert D.G. Henderson P. Van Meerbergen D. Brown H.L. Usher J.P. Bryant S.E. White (15)
Motion Passed
IX. DEFERRED
MATTERS
X. ENQUIRIES
XI. EMERGENT
MOTIONS
XII. BY-LAWS
BY-LAWS TO BE READ A FIRST, SECOND AND THIRD TIME: