October 29, 2024, at 1:00 PM

Original link

The meeting is called to order at 1:00 PM; it being noted that Councillors P. Van Meerbergen and S. Hillier were in remote attendance.

1.   Disclosures of Pecuniary Interest

That it BE NOTED that no pecuniary interests were disclosed.

2.   Consent

None.

3.   Scheduled Items

3.1   2025 Annual Budget Update

2024-10-29 Submission - 2025 Annual Budget Update

Moved by C. Rahman

Seconded by S. Lewis

That it BE NOTED that the Mayor’s Proposed Budget was provided to each member of Council, the City Clerk, and the public on October 28, 2024.

Motion Passed (15 to 0)

3.2   (ADDED) 2025 Annual Budget Update Administrative Matters

2024-10-29 Staff Report - 2025 Annual Budget Update Admin Matters

Moved by C. Rahman

Seconded by S. Lewis

That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Finance Supports, the following actions be taken:

a)    the Reconciliation of the Property Tax, Water and the Wastewater and Treatment Budgets to the Public Sector Accounting Board Financial Statement Budget (“Reconciliation”) as presented in the Mayor’s Tabled Budget for Council’s Consideration – 2025 Annual Budget Update (appended to the staff report dated October 29, 2024 as Appendix “A”) BE RECEIVED for information;

b)    the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to update the Reconciliation based on final budget decisions and to publish it within the adopted 2025 Annual Budget Update document;

c)    the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to bring forward any necessary by-laws regarding the tax levy for introduction at Municipal Council; and

d)    the 2025 Annual Budget Update Presentation (as appended to the staff report as Appendix “B”) BE RECEIVED for information.

Motion Passed (15 to 0)

4.   Items for Direction

None.

5.   Deferred Matters/Additional Business

None.

6.   Adjournment

Moved by A. Hopkins

Seconded by P. Cuddy

That the meeting BE ADJOURNED.

Motion Passed (15 to 0)

The meeting adjourned at 1:56 PM.

Full Transcript

Transcript provided by Lillian Skinner’s London Council Archive. Note: This is an automated speech-to-text transcript and may contain errors. Speaker names are not identified.

View full transcript (1 hour, 6 minutes)

Good afternoon, friends. One minute warning. Please take your seats. Good afternoon.

This is the fourth meeting, the budget committee. The city of London is situated on the traditional lands of the Nanoshbeq, Haudenosaunee, Lanawak, and Adawandran. We honor and respect the history and languages and diverse culture of the indigenous people who call this territory home. The city of London is currently home to many first nation, Maytean, Inuit today.

As representatives of the people of the city of London, we are grateful to have the opportunity to work and live in this territory for everyone’s information. Members of council here with me in chambers are all but Councillor Layman. On line, we have Councillor Hillier, on account and for so far as Councillor Layman and Councillor van Merbergen. I will let you know as they join the meeting.

The city of London is committed to making every effort to provide alternate formats and communication supports for meetings upon request. To make a request specific to this meeting, please contact 519-661-2489, extension 2425. I will now look to members of committee for disclosures of pecuniary interest. Seeing none, we have no consent items.

I will also note that we’re working off that added agenda today. As that one contains staff’s presentation. For scheduled items, it’s the mayor’s annual budget update. So the process for today is that as per the attachment, there is a slide that contained within it and you already received your lovely multi-year budget update that Mr.

Kyle Murray is going to walk us through his slide presentation, reminding us of how we came to be today and how we had those numbers. And then he will take about 15 minutes and then the mayor will walk us through his portion of the presentation, which will take about 15 minutes. And then we will have Q&A on procedural questions only. No cross debate today, just procedures of next steps, which will also be outlined in the slide deck.

And then we’ll do our motions to receive those reports and then we’ll wrap it up. And then we’ll move into SPPC shortly thereafter. I will note that Councillor Layman has now joined the meeting in person. And I team may need a moment just to get Mr.

Murray’s presentation on. So you can switch your screens over and I will turn it to Mr. Murray. Good afternoon.

And thank you for the opportunity today to provide an overview of the 2025 budget update. I wanna start today by extending thanks on behalf of Annalisa to the whole finance team, the senior leadership team and all service areas and agencies, boards and commissions who contributed to the development of this budget update. I’d also like to thank the mayor and the budget chair for their support and direction through this year’s process. So the 2025 annual budget update document is now live and available online at London.ca/budget and also on our public engagement page at getinvolved.london.ca/budget.

Today we’ll walk you through a refresher on the annual update process and where it fits to the overall multi-year budget process. I’ll start with a recap of where we were coming out of the 2024 to 2027 MYB process and heading into this budget update. I’ll walk through the key dates in the process as well as our public engagement plans for this year. And then I’ll pass it over to Mayor Morgan who will walk through the 2025 budget amendments.

And then we’ll conclude with a few key points that Budget Chair Palosa wishes to emphasize today. So the 2025 budget update reflects the first annual update to the 2024 to 2027 multi-year budget, which was deemed adopted on March 1st, 2024. The annual budget update process is an important component of the overall multi-year budget process because it allows for strategic adjustments or course corrections, if you will, during the course of the MYB cycle. So as you’ll recall, an annual budget update is not intended as a full redo of the multi-year budget.

Now that’s not to say that previous decisions cannot be revisited, they certainly can be, but an annual budget update is more focused on required amendments that have come up that are required to address material changes that have arisen since the adoption of the multi-year budget. Budget amendments in an annual budget update, excuse me, typically fall into the three categories you see listed here on the slide, those being new or changed regulations, new council direction, or an unanticipated cost or revenue driver that has materialized. So before we get into the details of the 2025 budget update, let’s recap where we are coming out of the adoption of the multi-year budget back in March. So this graph illustrates the tax levy increases that were anticipated based on the adopted multi-year budget.

8.7% was the budgeted tax levy increase for 2024. And at that point, 8.7% was also anticipated for 2025. 2026 and 2027 were projected at 5.7% and 6.7% respectively. So this was essentially the starting point for the 2025 budget update.

I also wanted to include a reminder of where we stand relative to other large Ontario municipalities. So in doing this comparison, we rely on the annual BMA municipal study, which is completed annually by an independent third party consultant. And this provides for comparisons of London to other Ontario municipalities. And we specifically look at other municipalities with a population greater than 100,000 people.

Now it’s important to note as well that this reflects 2023 data. We do not yet have the 2024 BMA study that has not yet been released. So we are still reliant upon 2023 data. So the first comparison you see here on screen is average residential taxes.

London is in green at $3,536 per year. The average is the red bar at $4,787 per year. And the median is the orange bar at $4,739 per year. The next comparison is average residential property taxes as a percentage of household income.

London is in green at three and a half percent. The average as well as the median in red and orange respectively are at 3.9 percent each. The next comparison is commercial property taxes. London is again in green at $2.99 per square foot for commercial office space.

The average again is in red and the median in orange at $3 and $3.71 per square foot respectively. And finally, industrial property taxes, again, London in green at $1.42 per square foot. The average is $2.06 per square foot in red and the median in orange at $1.93 a square foot. So let’s spend a couple of minutes now talking about key dates in the budget process and how we’ll be engaging with the public during the course of the upcoming few weeks.

So as a reminder, the strong mayor legislation was introduced by the province in 2022 and extended to include London in 2023. This continues to apply to our municipal budget process and you’ll recall that this was the process and the timelines that govern the multi-year budget process last year as well. The specific requirements and timelines are outlined on this slide. The first step is for the mayor to propose a budget on or before February 1st that then opens a 30 day period for council to make amendments to the proposed budget.

Following that, there is a 10 day period for the mayor to potentially veto council amendments that have been made. And then following that is a 15 day period for council to potentially override the mayor’s veto with the two thirds majority. So with the strong mayor requirements in mind, we’ve set the budget timetable for this year to ensure that we can satisfy those legislative requirements but also ensuring that we have the most amount of time possible for engagement and discussion on the budget. So the first milestone in the process is of course the release of the budget which happened yesterday, October the 28th.

We have our formal release presentation today. The next formal meeting date is the public participation meeting that has been scheduled for November the 19th. That is at four o’clock on November the 19th. But before we get to that, I wanted to highlight an important deadline and that being November the 11th at 9 a.m.

That is the deadline for council amendments to be included on the normal agenda for the November 21st budget committee meeting, which is when we will get into deliberations on the budget. The other important date to emphasize is November the 20th at 9 a.m. That is the deadline for council amendments to the mayor’s budget for inclusion on the added agenda for the November 21st meeting. So as I mentioned, we get into budget deliberations on November the 21st.

We also have November the 22nd set aside if required as well. Formal approval of council amendments to the 2025 budget update will be completed at council on November the 27th. And then we get into the next step in the process, which is the mayor’s intentions with respect to potentially vetoing council amendments. Mayor Morgan has indicated that he will provide his intentions by December 2nd.

And then the next step in the process, if so needed, is consideration of potential council overrides of mayor obitos, which would be completed at council on December 17th, if we are into that process. In terms of our public engagement plan for this year, one of the key takeaways I think we’ve had from the last few years is the importance of meeting Londoners where they are, rather than requiring them to come to City Hall. So with that in mind, we’ve scheduled a series of five in-person and one virtual pop-up events to provide an opportunity to inform and educate Londoners about the 2025 budget update and provide an opportunity for them to ask questions and find out more about how they can get involved in the process. So these dates and locations are on this slide.

These are also published as well on all of our promotional materials, as well as our get involved web page as well. In addition to the various pop-up events, we’re utilizing a number of other channels to spread the word about the 2025 budget update as well. We’re very happy to attend council or award meetings or community group events or provide presentations to council advisory committees. Happy to do any of those upon request.

Like last year, we will have a survey running on our get involved page that provides an opportunity for the public to provide their input and preferences on the budget amendments that have been put forward. We also have a number of other tools available online as well and we’re doing advertising through a number of formats, both newspaper, digital and so on. And like in previous years as well, all materials will be available at library branches as well as online. So with that, I will turn it over to Mayor Morgan who will walk through the 2025 budget amendments.

Thank you, Mr. Murray. Just as we wait for the mayor to get to the podium. I’ll also note that Councilor Van Merbergen has joined the meeting.

So all members of council are present. Mayor Morgan, whenever you’re ready, you can proceed. Quite as tall as you can, Kyle. Okay, thanks colleagues.

I appreciate the opportunity to provide a presentation of a few slides that I wanted to share in preparation of the budget, which as a reminder and as Mr. Murray said, my legislative responsibility is to produce a budget for your consideration and then it turns over to yours to have 30 days to make changes to that and move it into council’s supported budget at the end of that process. So I’ll go over a few things today so you understand some of the changes from what was expected in the annual budget, what was expected from the actual table budget and the four year plan that we have because there are some changes to it based on the categories that Mr. Murray has developed.

You’ll see amendments in two different sections. The ones that I’ve already included in the table budget and others that are for council’s consideration and discussion that may have been forwarded to the process by council that I did not include in the budget, very similar to the process that we followed at the start of the four year multi-year budget. The first I’m going to deal with is a series of amendments that I did include in the tabled property tax supported budget for council’s consideration. The first is from a council new council direction around rent evictions by-law.

So council passed a new series of provisions to combat rent evictions. Those have a cost to it. In support of council’s decision making, I’ve included the cost of the rent evictions components in the budget. This is one of the few areas in the budget that has upward pressure.

There’s actually an addition. Most of the other slides you’ll see today are actually reductions in the budget. Also council direction that I included in the budget was council’s directed reduction of the annual community grants program and implemented processes based on how to deal with it over the next couple of years. So you’ll see in the notes there, these are all council decisions that have been forwarded the budget process.

I accepted all of them and included them in, which means despite the 14 to one vote of me trying to keep the neighborhood decision making program, I’ve actually included in the budget respecting council’s decision making and also recognizing that with two thirds you could override me anyways. So the reduction to neighborhood decision making is actually in the budget as well. Also a direction that we made was, although this doesn’t have a budgetary impact, the support of film London over the next three years drawn from the economic development reserve fund, you’ll see that adjustment to the reserve fund actually outlined in the budget documents. There’s no actual up or down cost to this because it’s funded on a three year basis from existing funds in the economic development of reserve fund.

LTC bus purchase replacement program. This is actually a piece that you could look a little closer at in the actual business case. Essentially LTC ran and usually runs an operating surplus every year ‘cause they don’t actually implement their service changes in our adjustments until September. They’ve actually taken that operating surplus and suggested to use it for another challenge that they were gonna have, which was going to be a capital ask for increased cost of actual acquisition of buses.

So that nets out to be a zero, but you’ll see in the actual business case that it’s a move from operating to capital to solve a capital problem with a small operating surplus that they had this year. There’s also some adjustments to transportation capital projects which has no impact on the tax-supported budget, but adjusts the timing revisions within a number of capital budgets. This is that staff’s request to include. I’ve included all of those in the budget.

If you have questions about those, certainly our staff are able to answer those, although I think most colleagues are familiar with those sorts of adjustments. A piece that goes back to our substantive discussion we had within the tabling of the multi-year budget. If you recall, there was a discussion about the library’s capital plan. At the time, I included a 5.6 to 4 million on one time funding to address some significant capital needs that the London Public Library had with their facilities, including some issues with leaky roofs and other assets that needed an injection.

Two things occurred with that. One is we asked them to complete an asset management plan and they’ve done so and they’ve come forward with those additional requests for managing their capital asset management plan over the 10 year time horizon. And you’ll see this is the other place in the budget that actually has a net addition to it. You’ll see starting in 2026, an addition of 1.6 million, which consists and goes on up to about a nine year, I think time horizon to deal with their asset management plan and the addressing their infrastructure gap on their assets, matching their level of infrastructure gap at 3.3%, which is exactly the level that the city targets.

So they are completely aligned with the city and the management of their infrastructure gap. I’d also say that there is also included in the notes. They were not able to get the entire $5.6 million at the door in 2024. So they’ve asked to roll over some of that.

So you’ll see that there’s not a request in 2025 to start this allocation. They’ve got some leftover money from the 2024 allocation that they’ve rolled over so it can start in 2026. This is also why when we get to the slide that you see about how the tax rate adjusts over time, why you’ll see a reduction in 2025, but an increase in 2026 is because the library money actually comes online in 2026, not 2025, because this is an adjustment to the remaining years of the multi-year budget. Although we are looking to approve the 2025, all of the projections for the remaining years are included in this presentation and in your budget documents, so you know where the tax rate is trending and where some of these investments are coming online.

Although we will be able to make each annual individual decisions on these, should we choose to modify them in 2026 and 2027. The reduction in council expense accounts were included in the budget. This was the modest reduction to each of your expense accounts, which was a past decision of council. So you’ll see that that is reflected in the budget documents as well as an accepted and included business case.

The recently announced drawdown from the London Police Services Reserve Fund, which provides a net benefit of $850,000 in 2025 is included in the budget. Again, there was some media on this, so you’ve probably already seen it and discussed it. I also want to note the commitment that the administration and the board has made to continuing to look at opportunities in preparation for the 2026 and 2027 budgets as well, but that one time reduction in 2025 has been passed back and included in the budget update. And the transit commission also did an evaluation of their budget as they usually do through their own service review process and have found one time savings, much like the police did of $1.5 million.

They’re unsure at this point, whether that’s sustainable in future years. So if it is, they will include adjustments in the 2026 and 2027 budgets. If it’s not, you’ll see different numbers come forward, but this is their contribution to trying to alleviate some pressure on the tax rate as well. We have the direction that came from municipal council of the $1 million a year drawn from the Community Investment Reserve Fund.

This is an unsustainable non-permanent reduction, but does cover the remaining years of the multi-year budget. So that is also included in the presentation today. And then one of the largest pieces that I would encourage you to read through this business case in great detail, one of the largest pieces is the continuation of our own service review program, which I and the Budget Chair were closely with our staff on throughout the year. This is the thing that I always pause and emphasize each and every year because the service review program, which started in 2016, is a program that has returned significant savings to lenders, excuse me, over the course of the multi-year budget.

In fact, during that timeframe, we’ve carved up till 2025 about $50 million out of the base budget of the municipality without service reductions or job cuts. The net of that is well over $200 million, but the actual reduction of the budget is about $50 million. You’ll see that not only was 2025 addressed, but there were savings identified that carry forward through 2026 and 2027. So you see those projections here as well.

That means a total of $15.4 million of savings were found through the remainder of the multi-year budget through the great work of our staff. And that’s why you’ll see me pause for a slide a little bit and talk a little bit further about the service review program and the value of it. And the value of us offering this out to boards and commissions because it has returned to tremendous savings back and continues to do so in this budget update. And if you want details about the breakdown of each of those pieces, you’ll see those details in the actual business case in your documents.

Although there isn’t an adjustment based on this, through dialogue with the upper Thames River Conservation Authority, you’ll recall that when I presented, there was a 50% reduction in their 2025 ask, which was a 30% ask dropped down to 15 through discussion with your UTRCA. They’ve confirmed that they’re able to work within this budget in 2025 and so are not asking for adjustments to the budget that we tabled. I really appreciate the genuine and authentic discussions that we’ve had with the commission. And we’ve written a few letters of support for them to access some provincial funding as well as ask for some legislative changes that would be to their benefit in support of them managing their budget on the longer time horizon.

And as previously endorsed by council, service review training for the city’s agency boards and commissions, which we are paying for, is actually occurring on November 11th and 12th. It’s my strong recommendation to all the boards and commissions to send their members, anybody they would like to receive some of the same service review training that our staff have received in support of their ongoing look for efficiencies and management of their own budgets. Some boards and commissions have robust service review programs, some do not. I think there’s value in everyone taking this training.

There’s not, there’s no harm that comes from it. And certainly it’s something that we have offered out. And I think will be of great value to the boards and commissions, particularly the smaller ones who may not be able to contract this service on their own without putting pressure on their budgets. I think it’s responsible for the decision that council made to offer this out and pay for it and allow that opportunity for others across the city who share in the budget process to have the opportunity for the same sort of training that our staff have had.

And of course, if they like it and this works well, perhaps our additional sessions will do down the road. This is a really important slide and I would say having approaching now almost 10 years on council, one of the least understood parts of the budget process is that the part of the process that we’re in, the setting of the municipal budget amount is just the first step in setting the tax rate. So we often wanna say 8.7% is the tax rate that people are going to, the increase they’re gonna see. That is not the case.

8.7% is the budgetary increase of the size of the municipal budget. How that is paid for is a function of both tax policy as well as layering on of the education rates. So when you actually get your tax brochure in your folder with your tax bill at the final end of the year, it does not say 8.7%. It includes all of those adjustments that we make through the tax policy and education taxes.

And it was actually 7.7% last year, not 8.7. And so although we do not know what the actual impact of tax policy or the education rates will be for 2025, we will know in the spring. And in the final tax supported budget and in the bill that actually goes out to homeowners, you’ll see that it will be potentially lower than the 7.4% that I’m tabling today. I’ve actually on this graph included a dot for the 7.7 so that we have a reminder of, although we budget and we increased the budget by 8.7, it actually landed at 7.7.

I anticipate and I will be including a new tracking line so that there’s full transparency on where we actually land from what people are actually paying out of their pocket in the budget process. Although I cannot tell you where the dot will be in 2025, I can certainly ensure that it is there when we table the 2026 budget so that people can see generally the impacts of our tax policy and education taxes on what people actually pay out of their pocket. You’ll see here the 8.7% expected increase is now down to 7.4 in 2025. Because of where the library’s increased lands on their capital plan, you’ll see upward pressure along with a couple of other things in 2026 and some small upward pressure in 2027.

But again, we will go through the processes of service review and looking for efficiencies in those 2026 and 2027 years. Probably starting as soon as this budget process is completed. For now, we’re in the 2025 column and you’ll see that the budget that I’ve tabled today is about 1.3% lower on the tax supported side than was anticipated in the budget. There are amendments that I did not include that are here for council’s consideration and discussion.

There’s only one, it’s P-13. It is the shelter expansion funding request from Arc Aid Street Mission. Why is this here? I would point you back to the council meeting of July 23rd, 2024 where municipal council resolved two, they resolved a number of things, but there’s two clauses I would draw your attention to.

Clause C, civic administration be directed to prepare a budget amendment for consideration in the 2025 budget update process for funding and in 2025 in future years. That’s why the business case was developed. There was another piece here that directed me to advocate to provincial and federal governments to offset the costs that would be incurred related to this by lobbying essentially the provincial and federal governments for funding to address. What I will say to that, and although we don’t need to get into it today, is that I believe we have been not just as a municipality, but as municipalities across the province and the country successful in hearing and having the province and the federal governments here that there is a need for them to step back into the space of dealing with winter response and winter response type programs as well as encampments and funding for encampments across the country.

The federal government has put forward in their April budget $250 million to try to address this and they’re actively signing deals with the provinces now to have a level of provincial matching. We see, I think there’s four provinces left to go. It looks like from in the media Alberta is close. Saskatchewan just finished their election.

I anticipate those discussions will pick up. And I know that there are ongoing discussions with the province of Ontario and the minister’s office on Ontario’s participation in that program. Ideally, we know exactly where this lands at some point in our budget process, but as of this tabling of the budget yesterday and the presentation today, we do not know exactly how that money will flow or the level that we would get at London, but this is an ideal possible source of financing for a winter response style program or costs associated with managing encampments and dealing with encampments in our cities and creating transition paths from encampments to housing. So this is here.

It’s for council’s consideration. I know we’ll probably have some discussion on this. Ideally, we have some more information on the funding side from our federal and provincial partners on exactly where they land through their negotiations on the federal money that is available. There are a number of amendments to the water and wastewater budget.

I’ll just flip through them. I’m not gonna do these. None of these actually have impacts. There are a number of them are adjustments to capital projects and plans.

In fact, I’m gonna save some time by just skipping through these slides since there aren’t any tax implications or impacts, but you can read through those on the wastewater side as well, there are a number of adjustments that you can see for council’s consideration. And before I hand it over to the Budget Chair for the Budget Chair’s requests, I do wanna say a couple of thank you as in the preparation of the budget. This work began immediately after the budget concluded and it involved both the ongoing work of our staff in every civic department, which continues to look for savings each and every day to provide our committed level of service in our strategic plan and our budget documents in a more efficient way. Hence the return of some dollars in savings through the service review process.

But also I’ve had significant engagements with the boards and commissions across the city about our partnership together. I know that for some of them, they felt like the initial budget process was a bit of a rough ride. You’ll see that through a level of collaboration and very extensive dialogue, we have a very collaborative approach to the annual budget update and a number of those boards and commissions even returning savings, recognizing the pressure that taxpayers are facing the city of London. I wanna thank them and their boards for the discussions that they have had at their level, whether they forwarded reductions or whether they did not send costs or whether they were willing to pace out some of their capital plan under a different time horizon.

The work that they did in support of the work that we’re doing, I have nothing but positive comments for. And I believe we’re in a very good spot with our boards and commissions from a collaborative perspective on the budget side of things. I think we’re working in the same direction. We recognize the pressures.

We’re all trying to deliver critical services across the city for significant value for taxpayers. And I wanna finish before I turn it over to the Budget Chair for her request. Thank her for her work in probably saying I’m over time, but also managing the budget process, engaging with colleagues and ensuring that the things are going smoothly on that. And for all the work that you will do over the next month, I’ll thank you in advance for that.

And I look forward to the discussions. I’ll turn it over to you to finish your slides. I’ll stay up here in case I’m needed for some of the Q&A. Thank you.

I always appreciate it over to thanks. Sometimes it’s a thankless job. And I will keep showing up and get us through this process, I promise. And there will be hot lunch available when it’s time.

You’re welcome to stay there and do questions or come back to your seat. I’ll leave that to you. My last two slides just touched on the same process we did last time that staff is available. If you know your question in advance, please ask them.

They’ll be doing their drop in again just for counselors to go upstairs. Those dates will be to announced so we can ask them in person as that time if that works better for you. Any conflicts of interest that you know in advance, just let us know if we can pull that out and have that ready. You’ve heard this several times, but the deadline for making the regular agenda for any amendments you might have is November 11th at 9 a.m.

I’ll ask our assistants put that to our schedulers just so we know. And if you have a mover and a seconder as well that you can circulate with that, it’s amazing. And we can have that all loaded in E-Scribe just to help us with efficiencies as we move forward. The staff have already told you about all the drop-in sessions.

I know many counselors are planning to be there, which is great. So you can attend as many as you like. And for the public, the email address for this committee is budget@london.ca. So you’re welcome to send in your correspondence to that email address and just let staff know if you’d like to be part of the public record or just circulate to council as we have weeks together feedback before hosting the public participation meeting here in chambers, which will have an in-person zoom and telephone option as always.

So at this point that concludes the official presentation is your opportunity for Q&A of the finance team or the mayor for procedural type questions only not getting into budget of how we feel about the things in it, just procedural questions. Okay, I will start my speaker’s list. I am timing with Councilor Treso. Thank you very much for the presentations through the chair.

I want to be very clear before we go into this process about the deadlines specifically for counselors to bring forward amendments and what’s expected. ‘Cause there were some issues last time and I would like to avoid that. Statutorily, there is a 30-day period of what we’re told through an asterisk that the council can modify that. My specific question is, is the, I guess it would be the mayor, are there going to be further changes to that 30-day period or can we rely on the dates that have been published here?

That being the deadline, I guess, for the added agenda for the deliberation meeting. So I could have our staff chime in. So the modifications to the 30 days, we can shorten it but we can’t extend it under the legislation. We can shorten the 30-day period for council’s deliberation.

We can shorten the period, like essentially I can waive the time period of 10 days for my veto down to a shorter period of time, which you’ve actually seen me indicate that I’m going to do that. And then council can waive its 15-day period to shorten it for override of mayoral vetoes. But these timeframes cannot be extended. They can only be shortened.

So the dates before you represent the, I think, staffs and consultation with the budget chair, the best possible opportunity to have the information before you today, leave a period of time for a level of engagement across the city, both staff governed as well as you, before coming back for a PPM and then deliberations later in the month. The deadlines are a function of the regular deadlines that we have for agendas for meetings. So if you want your item on the regular agenda, though the deadline is there. If you want your item on the added agenda, the deadline is there.

Where the consequences come in more substantively, and I think the clerk’s comment on this, is from a procedure by-law perspective, the way that last-minute additions are handled at council. There are different thresholds for leave, depending on if you provide a notice of motion or whether you bring it as an emergent motion. But for the regular debates through the budget committee, none of those require those thresholds. You just have to decide to get the items in on one of the two deadlines, if you’d liked it to be on the public agenda, so the public can see it too.

I don’t know if there’s anything to add by our staff or the clerks. Councilor Troso. Yeah, I guess my specific question was, are there going to be any further actions taken to reduce the notice period? Can you assure us that that is not gonna happen?

The mayor. I don’t intend on doing it myself, so you have my assurance that I’m not gonna reduce my notice period. I’ve basically given the indication of the things that I have control over of the veto process that I’ve already shortened it, and I actually think that’s to the advantage, because if we all agree on the budget, as of the council meeting, there’s no need for me to wait and contemplate if we’re just gonna move forward together and bring the budget into effect. I don’t know if there’s a question more for our staff on the notice periods of meetings, but those are all in the procedure by-law for my understanding.

Councilor, did you want staff to speak to it? Or are you satisfied? No, but we’ll just have to go through the procedure by-law again and figure out what that says. Let me move on to my next question.

Assuming, no, I know we were told that we shouldn’t be revisiting unsuccessful business plans that we did last time. Or successful business plans in the case of a reduction. But in the event that a councilor wishes to put forward an amendment that would be in the nature of revisiting a previous unsuccessful business plan or a successful business plan with an offset. What form, and this is in the interest of councilors putting forward coherent resolutions for you without a lot of staff work, what form should those be in?

Would we refer back to the original numbering for the business plan and say we went this revisited? How would we do that? Thank you. I’ll go to staff in a moment, but I’ll also note that this annual update as all of them are based upon the multi-year budget process and all those business cases we went through.

So it’s essentially that original MYB is like an appendix to this. So I would deem that to be in order and appropriate. So that is absolutely in order. I will go to Mr.

Murray if you would like to say if it’s like the original business case number that was P something that might now be something else in here of how you would like that to be addressed. Thank you through the chair. So what I would strongly recommend is as you’re considering potential amendments that you’re wishing to put forward, please reach out to us and to our colleagues in clerks as well. We can assist with crafting the wording for those amendments so that they’re very clear on what you’re referring to, perhaps what past decisions or past business cases you were referring to.

We’re working on some consistent wording so that we have kind of a consistent format that amendments can come forward in just so that there’s absolute clarity in terms of what’s being referred to. So again, please, we’d strongly recommend and advocate if you can engage with us as you’re considering putting forward amendments that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. My next speaker will be Councillor Raman.

Thank you. And just to follow up on that matter, I’m a bit confused as to how we revisit business cases. Would they not have been somewhat decided by council, whether or not to move forward with them? And therefore, are they decided matters that require us to have a reconsideration?

I know procedurally we did the timing was later last year, but this is the annual update procedurally as a chair, I would rule it in order. If you did want to bring something back in. I did ask the clerk, he said it would be at the call. The decision, the chair, you’re always welcome to challenge me as our procedural bylaws, but this is the annual update and you can’t wait till January.

We need to do it this year. So this is our time frame since it’s now been tabled, the clock’s ticking. And I would just ask that we follow the deadlines on here. I would note for any colleague that if you are thinking of something, if it can hit that November 11th, 9 a.m.

deadline, that way the public will know. So when they come for the public participation meeting, they could speak to it. If it’s an interest to them, versus if we hit the added deadline, they won’t get a chance to see it before they have an opportunity to speak. Councilor Roman, anything else?

Okay. I will go to Councilor Hopkins and then I’ll recognize Deputy Mayor Lewis. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. And just my thanks to the mayor for taking us through the annual update and really want to thank the ABCs and also civic administration for the savings, especially through the service review.

I think it’s a lot of work there and a lot of savings have been found. So thank you for that. My question is around the process as a council now, we can bring forward amendments. We really do no longer technically vote on the budget.

I would like to know where is there, is there an opportunity to make comments when it’s all said and done on the budget? I know we can’t vote on it, is there an opportunity to make comments on the budget? That’s the same, we’ll follow the same process that we did for the multi-year budget. So unless the item you want to speak about on the floor procedurally, just giving general comments wouldn’t be an order unless it was on the floor for discussion, any general comments would need to be saved to council for your five minutes of speaking time.

Okay, I just wanted to confirm that there is a five minute rule there at the end for any councilor to make comments. I know the last time we went through this process, we were unsure of course, we can bring forward amendments and make comments at that time, but when it’s all said and done, I noticed some of those did make comments, others weren’t sure if they could make comments and I just wanted to make sure that we are allowed to do that. I’ll just look for a quick nod from the chair of council that you would deem that in order at council for people to make general comments since they couldn’t do it during budget unless something was on the floor. Yeah, I’ll make just two comments.

One is, although you don’t vote on the budget, you council has the ability to change any aspect of the budget whatsoever in any through this process, right? So it’s those two pieces legislatively, the tabling and then the council ability to change that creates the municipal budget. So it’s kind of a different process that the province has set out, but essentially at the end of the day, it’s still all of our budget. We each have the ability to put something on the floor and then change it anyway that we’d like as a council.

So that’s the first piece. And second piece, I mean, I’d have to just look at the clerks to see how we did it last time. I’d wanna be consistent and make sure that I was looking at the council agenda and where that would be appropriate and not. So I could take that under advisement.

I don’t wanna make the call on that right now without consultation with the clerks too, ‘cause I generally like to follow the rules of the procedure by-law unless we make some sort of decision together to exempt it. Hey, you’re okay? Deputy Mayor Lewis. And then I will just note that as PPC supposed to kind of start it too.

So just keep our questions. This takes as long as it takes, but we would have to do some adjourning in and out and we have about 10 plus minutes left. So just keep it tight if we could. Deputy Mayor Lewis, then Councillor Stevenson, then Councillor Pribble.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ll try and keep this as tight as I can. I wanna follow up on Councillor ramen’s question about reconsideration because I have a little bit of a concern about how you answered that. With respect to just carbon copying verbatim votes that were lost last year, 10 to five or 11 to four, I really don’t think is a respectful use of council’s time and they wouldn’t be substantively different.

So I’m wondering in terms of your ruling on reconsideration, if you are taking into account whether or not these are substantively different or if we are simply voting on an exact carbon copy, because in that case, I think procedurally a challenge to the chair might be in order and we could spend a lot of time doing that. So I’m kinda looking to you for some more detail in terms of how you will be determining whether it is in order or not. Yeah, I think it’s still looking for a material change of those things of, do you know a bunch of people are gonna change their votes? Like some votes were one to 14 last time and we only have two days set aside for this.

So we will not make it through the process if that’s what we do, but I don’t wanna speculate too much. We will cross that bridge should and if and when we come to it. And like I said, I’ll make a ruling at that time when I see what it is. And then we’ll go to forward together and you can challenge me as we go.

‘Cause I don’t know what, I haven’t only heard from one or two colleagues about something that they may or may not be contemplating and at this point from what I’ve heard so far, it’s not a concern. Does that satisfy you at the moment? Okay, Councillor Stevenson. Thank you, I just wanted to ask originally on our calendars, we had four days set aside and now we only have two.

So I just wondered why that happened and is there a concern that we might not have enough time? Yeah, it’s always been one and then a hold as one has needed. There hasn’t been four and as it’s just an update, it should be a streamline process at that point. Councillor Pribble.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, to the staff and actually comment. Thank you Mayor and the staff for including the 7.7% and there are many, many lenders. Actually, I always try to mention it and I haven’t met one lender yet that we’re aware that it’s not the 8.7 but the increase is 7.7 and I hope the media will pick up this information because it’s a very important information for landowners.

If I go back, if I can have a clarification on this slide, it does state 7.3% average. I assume the 7.3% average is not including the 7.7 and it’s based on the first year of 8.7, is my assumption correct? To staff. Thank you through the Chair.

The 7.3% figure, that orange line, that refers to the average of the purple line. So correct, it does not relate to the 7.7, it incorporates the 8.7 for 2024. Thank you for this information and I would like to ask if the staff of the American consider not to make this graph more confusing but to add the number that would also include the 7.7, so we would actually go actual year one and the forecast is year three. So the 7.3 would actually be lower if it could be considered by the mayor and the staff.

Thank you. I see a not over there for consideration. We’re gonna have to do a motion to extend or something soon, Mayor Morgan. I wanna be transparent.

So I don’t actually think, and I’ll talk to our staff about this, that is the best idea for displaying the information because you’re then starting to mix what is our budgetary increase. So the amount that the municipal budget for our operations is increasing with the after all of the pieces of tax policy and education taxes are done and trying to mix them into the average without the complete information of at the end of the day, where we land after tax policy would create, I think some skewed numbers that might not actually reflect the transparency. So I think we can show here’s how our budget average increase is changing based on how we budget. And then over time, we can actually show here’s what you actually paid and what came out of your pocket, which is the number that is actually in the brochure that you get when you get your final tax bill.

And as we get more data points over time, we can actually chart that kind of. So next year, I could actually draw a line to show this is where you land on actual taxes. But I think mixing the two lines actually creates, it’s two different numbers that shouldn’t be averaged together. And I see nods from finance staff on that.

Okay, I’m all good, thank you for the answers. Thank you, I see no one online. So if they have a question, just they can indicate it now, ‘cause I’m going to Councilor Robin in the meantime. Thanks, and I’ll be short.

I do think that if it’s possible to clarify further the issue of reconsideration or not, because if we submit a motion, let’s say, or something for consideration, by November 11th, I just wanna make sure that we have some clear indication as to whether or not it will be considered ruled in or out beforehand, or are you saying that has to be only considered ruled in or out on the floor? And I would argue that materially, we’re having a different discussion, even though it might be on the same business case, just in terms of where we are on the budget. So I’m just wondering if we can get more clarification on that ruling, ‘cause I do think it helps to streamline and make more efficient or meetings if we’re able to decide that now. Thank you, through the chair.

I’m happy to work with any counselor that submits an amendment along with her friends in finance and the budget chair. It would be helpful to have it well in advance of the deadline as that the counselor has indicated the time crunch. I do agree with that having an advance would be helpful. We can assess that on a case-by-case basis, having consideration of whether it’s materially different, whether there’s legally binding commitments and other aspects that may affect the reconsideration determination by the chair.

Thanks. My concern would be that the general public may not understand the nuanced discussion that we’re having in terms of a reconsideration vote on this budget. I think we need to make a determination so the public knows how they engage on previous business cases of which they were very perhaps invested in. I’m sorry, was that a question or a comment of a comment?

Okay, I appreciate that. And as always, cases in advance are very helpful in wording in advance, but we still have that ability to do things on the floor. I would handle it like last time, go through things ideally in some sort of order and then things that we knew were coming that were circulated to deal with those and then we can deal with the conversation as we go. So trying to follow the same kind of process I did with the MYB.

I’m gonna give a heads up that the scheduled items we had being 3.1 today and 3.2, I will need a mover and a seconder. 3.1 was the lovely multi-year budget, 177 pages you got. I have a mover and Councillor ramen and a seconder and Deputy Mayor Lewis and the second one was the added presentation and the direction contained therein of the report. Looking for any questions or comments left on that, I thought those two things are basically on the floor.

Okay, you got the mover and seconder. The vote is in E-Scribe, calling the question. Councillor van Merebergen, Councillor Cuddy. Cuddy votes, yes.

Second call, Councillor van Merebergen. Oh, yes. Those in the vote, motion carries, 15 to zero. Thank you colleagues and staff for your presentation.

That’s fine. Okay, so this is 3.2 being the, ‘cause we’re just calling the question separate, this was the annual update being that staff report that was in there, same mover of Councillor ramen seconded by Deputy Mayor Lewis, calling the question on that one. Those in the vote, motion carries, 15 to zero. Thank you, and thank you to staff for getting us this far.

If you ever wonder how the Mayor and I spent our summer notification, this was a decent portion of it with staff. We have no items for direction, we have no deferred matters, additional business. And as always, I remain available as does finance and the clerks. At this point, we would need a motion to adjourn the budget committee, and then we will stop ever so briefly to switch things around and then get into SPPC.

I have a mover and Councillor Hopkins, a seconder and Councillor Cuddy, calling the question of adjournment. Those in the vote, motion carries, 15 to zero. Thank you. We are adjourned and hold tight while we reset for SPPC in 111.