November 11, 2024, at 1:00 PM

Original link

The meeting was called to order at 1:01 PM.

1.   Disclosures of Pecuniary Interest

That it BE NOTED that no pecuniary interests were disclosed.

2.   Consent

2.1   2024 Annual Emergency Management Program Update

2024-11-11 SR 2024 Annual Emergency Management Program Update - Part 1

2024-11-11 SR 2024 Annual Emergency Management Program Update - Part 2

Moved by J. Pribil

Seconded by E. Peloza

That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Enterprise Supports the following actions be taken with respect to the staff report, dated November 11, 2024, related to the 2024 Annual Emergency Management Program Update:

a)    the proposed by-law, as appended to the above-noted staff report, BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting, to be held on November 26, 2024, to amend By-law No. A.-7657-4, as amended, being “A by-law to repeal By-law No. A.-7495-21 and to adopt an Emergency Management Program and Plan” in order to repeal and replace Schedule “A” to the by-law; and,

b)    the above-noted staff report BE RECEIVED. (2024-P03)

Motion Passed (5 to 0)

2024-11-11 SR Property Standards Related Demolition

Moved by E. Peloza

Seconded by H. McAlister

That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Planning and Economic Development, the proposed by-law, as appended to the staff report dated November 11, 2024, BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on November 26, 2024 to approve the potential demolition of the vacant building at 1154 Hamilton Road in the City of London and the property may be cleared of all identified buildings, structures, debris and refuse and left in a graded and levelled condition in accordance with the City of London Property Standards By-law and the Ontario Building Code Act, if required. (2024-P10D)

Motion Passed (5 to 0)

2.3   Parks and Recreation Master Plan Update

2024-11-11 SR Parks and Recreation Master Plan Update

Moved by J. Pribil

Seconded by H. McAlister

That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Environment and Infrastructure and the Deputy City Manager, Neighbourhood and Community-Wide Services, the following actions be taken with respect to the staff report dated November 11, 2024 related to the Parks and Recreation Master Plan Update:

a)    the following report BE RECEIVED for information and the project milestones and timelines identified in Section 2.4 BE ENDORSED;

b)    the following matters BE ENDORSED for review with the update:

i)    projected city-wide population growth and the geographic distribution of future users of park and recreation services;

ii)    a forecast of parkland needs;

iii)    park types, definitions and servicing areas;

iv)    equity and inclusion strategies and opportunities;

v)    strategies and standards to provide mitigation and adaptation to Climate Change;

vi)    municipal park infrastructure provision best practices (demographics, trends, types of amenities, etc.);

vii)    quality and quantity standards for parkland and park amenities;

viii)    quality and quantity standards for pathways, park system linkages and open space lands;

ix)    the confirmation of provision targets and service standards for pickleball, cricket, community gardens, dog parks, community gathering spaces, public washrooms, and the provision of potable water;

x)    infrastructure requirements for parks located near intensified growth areas;

xi)    opportunities for service provision partnerships, including school boards and businesses;

xii)    identification of policies, strategies and action plans to guide Master Plan implementation; and,

xiii)    a 15-year forecast of park infrastructure needs to inform updates to the capital budget and growth needs for the 2027 Development Charges Background Study.

it being noted that operational service delivery standards and detailed lifecycle renewal needs are outside of the scope of the Parks and Recreation Master Plan. (2024-R04)

Additional Votes:

Moved by S. Trosow

Seconded by J. Pribil

That part ix) of the motion be amended to read as follows:

ix)       the confirmation of provision targets and service standards for pickleball, cricket, community gardens, dog parks, community gathering spaces, public washrooms, and the provision of potable water;

Motion Passed (5 to 0)

Moved by J. Pribil

Seconded by H. McAlister

That the motion, as amended, BE APPROVED.

Motion Passed (5 to 0)

3.   Scheduled Items

3.1   Special Events Policy Review Public Participation Meeting Report

2024-11-11 SR Special Events Policy Review PPM Report - Full

Moved by J. Pribil

Seconded by H. McAlister

That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Neighbourhood and Community-Wide Services the staff report dated November 11, 2024 related to the Special Events Policy Review Public Participation Meeting Report BE RECEIVED; it being noted that the Civic Administration will bring forward an amended Special Events Policy at the December 2, 2024, Community and Protective Services Committee meeting. (2024-P11)

Motion Passed (5 to 0)

Additional Votes:

Moved by E. Peloza

Seconded by H. McAlister

Motion to open the public participation meeting.

Motion Passed (5 to 0)

Moved by H. McAlister

Seconded by E. Peloza

Motion to close the public participation meeting.

Motion Passed (5 to 0)

Moved by D. Ferreira

Seconded by S. Trosow

That the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to prohibit amplified sound after 11:00 PM in the Special Event Policy being brought forward for consideration at the December 2, 2024, meeting of the Community and Protective Services Committee and that in the event of exceptional circumstances, the Deputy City Manager, or designate, is authorized to extend the hours of amplified sound for Special Events to a maximum extension of 60 minutes.

Motion Failed (2 to 3)

4.   Items for Direction

None.

5.   Deferred Matters/Additional Business

None.

6.   Confidential

Moved by H. McAlister

Seconded by E. Peloza

That the Community and Protective Services Committee convene In Closed Session for the purpose of considering the following:

6.1    Land Acquisition/Solicitor-Client Privilege/Commercial or Financial Information of the Corporation with Monetary Value/Position, Plan, Procedure, Criteria or Instruction for Negotiation Purposes

A matter pertaining to the proposed or pending acquisition of land by the municipality, including communications necessary for that purpose; advice that is subject to solicitor-client privilege; commercial and financial information that belongs to the municipality and has monetary value or potential monetary value and a position, plan, procedure, criteria or instruction to be applied to any negotiations carried on or to be carried on by or on behalf of the municipality.

Motion Passed (5 to 0)

The Community and Protective Services Committee convened In Closed Session from 3:03 PM to 3:20 PM.

7.   Adjournment

Moved by H. McAlister

Seconded by J. Pribil

That the meeting BE ADJOURNED.

Motion Passed (5 to 0)

The meeting adjourned at 3:25 PM.

Full Transcript

Transcript provided by Lillian Skinner’s London Council Archive. Note: This is an automated speech-to-text transcript and may contain errors. Speaker names are not identified.

View full transcript (1 hour, 40 minutes)

It’s very just, and it allows them to go to Richmond Road and have a drink and still get something to eat and it shares the wealth. ‘Cause I’ve actually never seen an economic report on what the economic benefits are of things like Rock the Park and Sunfasts. I worked at a restaurant on Richmond Road during Sunfasts. It was just a slight blip in the business.

I also cleaned hotel rooms many, many years ago in a boutique hotel off Coven near the market. It also just resulted in a blip. A lot of the people that attend these events, they’re local, some of them are regional. So I would really like to see what that economic boost actually is that puts so much pressure or burden on the neighborhoods.

So I think you need to look at a broad, like I find the report too narrow. It also doesn’t address the fact that last summer, another event, a comedy event which everyone was looking forward to got canceled. And that’s because Rock the Park has so much damage to Harris Park structure because it rains so much. It just got canceled and no one’s talking about whether these events have outgrown their space.

People can’t use those events. The damage that was done last summer has never been repaired. It can’t be repaired ‘cause the ground is so compacted. So none of that is looking at whether these events are just outgrown their space.

I know the neighborhood would like to have the park back and we desperately need a dog park and there’s no place to put it. Two large extensions of the event damage done. No one talks, another thing that was raised is just the sheer amount of garbage that is left behind in Harris Park after these events. No one cleans it up.

Residents have started to investigate the impacts of the garbage. One resident takes photographs. We know the garbage goes into the river. It goes into the woodlands.

There’s just no follow up. The report also fair to mention that people want a waste free event. This means where there is pressure on vendors to, you know, if they’re serving up hot dogs to serve them in napkins as opposed to putting them in, even if they’re recyclable containers, it’s still garbage. Still something the taxpayer has to pay for.

Rock, sorry, I don’t wanna. So I feel like these events should actually be smaller, not bigger. 30 seconds. Because they’re just too big for the surrounding environment.

So Sunfaster has broken up. There’s some Dundas place. There’s still some in Victoria Park. That’s better than just having it all in Victoria Park.

And I think Harris Park, I think people really wanna reclaim that park so that people can have more of, be more and share the park more than it is right now without any damages. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Velaster.

That was exactly five minutes. Looking to the gallery for any other speakers. Thank you. Once you get to the mic, please state your name and then I’ll tell you when you have your five minutes.

Hello, my name is Alfredo Cascha. I’m representing here, Sandfest. And yet you have five minutes, you can go ahead. Yeah, thank you.

We actually take with a great reception that the opportunity that the events will be extended for an hour, not necessarily that we’ll be programming until that time, but as you know, sometimes with whether incidents or some kind of other delays, it allows us to continue with the programming. As I said, the intention is not to program until midnight, but at least to have that space that will allow us to deal with the emergency issues, stuff like that. Also, going back to the points of the lady here that mentioned, yes, there are economic impact reports on different festivals, Sandfest has done several. Last year, we did one in conjunction with Tourism London, which they have a copy of that, and it’s the millions of dollars, millions of dollars that we’ve been to the community as a result of the festival.

And I believe the other festivals do exactly the same impact in the hospitality area, restaurants, hotels, everyone, and almost 25% now, people who come to Sandfest come from outside of London, Ontario, which means incredible, you know, tremendous impact and the economy of our city. I believe that what we are considering a little bit and fair is the penalties that they want to impose to festivals if they go over the 90 decibels. I believe there has to be a totally understanding of what the 90 decibels means. When you put a brass band in the banjo without any amplification, they will exceed very easy, the 90 decibels.

So it’s, you know, but we’re talking about residential areas, you know, when someone is playing at the banjo, you know, the 90 decibels won’t go over, you know, 100 meters, stuff like that. So those are some of the things that need to be considered, but again, once again, we appreciate the fact that the possibility of expanding the hour for festivals and events. And once again, this is the city of music, designated by UNESCO. And when you took a look of the number of events that happened during the summer, there are really not that many in comparison, you know.

So we bring life to the community. We bring economic impact to the community. We, we, we, we, you know, we foster the race relations among our city sense. And I think that’s what really makes oversee the much better place to leave.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. Looking to gallery for any additional speakers. See none.

And looking online, okay. Just give a couple more seconds. All right, look in the committee to close the PPM. Moved by Councillor McAllister, seconded by Councillor Palosa.

Let’s call the question. That’s a vote, yes. Opposing the vote, the motion carries five to zero. Okay, looking to committee to receive the report by Councillor Peruzza, seconded by Councillor McAllister.

Okay, looking at committee to any discussion, any comments for Palosa. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the public coming out for this one and the feedback that we’ve done.

The Great Outdoors Comedy Festival was a loss and it was gonna be sold out event as a tourism London board member. Hoping we can get it back in the future years. A question through you to staff, a couple of different portions. As we’ve heard today and we know that flood plains and the water events that we’re having, when there’s the fees to book the different venues in London for outdoor events, is there adequate remediation fees included in those rental fees for when there is a water event or the event was tremendous and the grounds are ruined that we actually have our costs covered by the rental fees versus taxpayers shouldering that.

Okay, Councillor, Ms. Pollock. Thank you for the question and through the chair. We are doing a comprehensive review right now of the special event fees that are included in the fees and charges by-law, particularly because of the two 100 year events that we’ve just seen back to back in Harris Park.

So once the policy changes are implemented, we will then look at all of our supporting documents and tools and resources to make sure that they align to the changes we’ve made in the policy, but a comprehensive review of our fees are on the docket. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. And when is the anticipated quarter that we’re expected to see that in 2025?

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for the question. So we’re currently looking to have the fees and charges updates, I think in 2026, so they’ll be implemented for the next multi-year budget. Thank you, Councillor.

Hey, honestly a little bit longer of a wait than I was anticipating, realizing that having seen the social media posts of attendees, it’s when these events in Harris Park, the park’s absolutely destroyed, which takes it out of use for future events as we move forward. The next question I have is in regards to the decibels. I would just like some feedback on that. I know between the way that London shaped in being a Ward 12 Councillor for those who don’t live in the south end, the sound tends to carry up and into the south end, partway along the water into their ends that even by Southdale and Warren Cliff, you can sing along sometimes where I know people downtown were like, oh, it didn’t seem that loud, but we’re hearing at our homes are vibrating.

So very mindful of if there was weather delays, absolutely would love that the show that’s on to be able to finish the performers that came in, but residents at this end looking to see what could be done or where you registered that noise decibel reading from. Thank you, Councillor, Ms. Smith. Thank you, and through the chair, we’ve in our proposed policy, we’ve done some work on modernizing our sound policy and where you listen to that.

And I’m gonna turn it over to Mr. Catolic as his area works collaborative with us on this sound bylaw. Thank you, and through the chair, we measure the sound at the point reception in residential areas. And when it is over 90 decibels, we radio in to the front house, to the system that’s controlling the noise and ask that it be reduced.

There is a reality that depending on where you are in residential areas, you may hear very little sound. And when you go further down, you may hear more sound, but generally it is under 90 decibels. I have personally measured the sounds most recently at the Glorious Sons concert at the Harris Park. And it was under 90 decibels at the point reception in residential areas.

But however, if you do measure the sound at the concert, most definitely it is over 90, but that’s why people are there. So we focus very much on where the complaints are gonna come from, and they are at the point reception in residential areas. Thank you, Mr. Catolic, Councillor Palosa.

Thank you, follow up on the same point through you to staff, relivellizing that the review of fees in charges bylaw might have more clarity on this coming in. The report states that for the amplified sound at events, violations for a $2,000 penalty. Looking to see if it’s too, you charge them a fee of $2,000 that they violate it, and they just keep going for the rest of the night, or the rest of the day, if it’s a multi venue, or like multi-day activity that people are attending, is it 2,000 per day, 2,000 per the entire night, or is it like every, so many, like every half hour, you let it keep going? There’s another two grand, ‘cause I know for some big acts, like it’s gonna be nothing, it’s just gonna be, they’ll do what they want, and they pack up and leave town.

Thank you, Councillor, to Ms. Palosa. Thanks for the question, so the fee is charged once per day, so it would be, it could be accumulated. Thank you, thank you, Councillor.

Thank you, I’ll follow up through you then, if it’s currently once per day, when your review of the fees and bylaws come back in a future date, would you automatically look into different municipalities to see if that’s standard once a day fees, or if it’s once? ‘Cause if it’s a full day concert, you get charged at 9 a.m., you’re gonna blow through till 10 midnight, like, I’m not okay with that. So looking to see if that would come back in your review, or if you need more direction from committee, which I would do. Thank you, Councillor, Ms.

Smith. Thank you, and through the chair. In 2025, early 2025, my service area is undergoing a review of all of our user fees, and we will be bringing those back in the fall of 2025, as part of the consolidated fee and charges bylaw that will be coming before council in fall of 2025. So we’d be more than happy and we are currently looking at what other municipalities are doing, and we would be more than happy to bring back some revised fees at that report in fall 2025, I believe it’s September, that would come into effect 2026.

Thank you, Councillor. So just, I’m understanding that you wouldn’t need the direction that it’s now on your radar and that report’s coming anyways. Okay, I see a nod, so I’m happy with that, as I try and, as I do believe staff are looking to take that into advisement, and that concludes my questions in this report. Thank you, Mr.

Chair. Thank you, Councillor, looking to committee for comments, questions. Councillor, please go ahead. Thank you, Mr.

Chair, to the staff. I did have actually certain experiences this past summer and fall with some loud music as well, and I wanted to ask you as to, that I was actually present when our staff was there and measuring the decibels as well. And there was, it was based on type of the music, because there was, for example, going into the high 80s, 90s, and it wasn’t actually as bad. Then there could’ve been, we were down to about 70, it was actually worse because of the base and because of the vibrations.

The decibels, is it the only indicator that we could actually follow, or is there anything else that we could potentially do? And is there anything else potentially that other municipalities do in terms of controlling it? Thank you. Thank you, Councillor.

I believe this is Mr. Catolic. Yes, thanks for the question and through the chair. One thing that we could do and have done through the sound by-law is to ask that the event organizer, or patio, or whoever we’re dealing with, hire an acoustic engineer, because the Councillor is absolutely right, that at 90 decibels, it might not be as negatively impacting the neighborhood as 70 decibels because of the base.

And the reality is that the bands that are coming in right now through different genres, there’s a lot of base, and that’s a complaints that we’re getting. So that is an option that we can always engage in, and it’s already in the sound by-law. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you very much, no more questions.

Thank you, Councillor, looking again to committee online. I see Councillor Trussell, please go ahead, Councillor. Thank you very much. I do have a few questions.

I’ll try to keep this as short as I can. During the orientation week at Western, as people here know, there were a lot of complaints, and they were not coming from, well, some of them were, but many of them were coming from as far away as North of Fanshawe Park Road, Sunnydale. And this was because of the base, and no, you don’t get to sing along, you just hear your windows rattling because of the base. So I hope this is taken very seriously, ‘cause it’s not just a question, it’s not just a question of decibels, and it’s not just a question of measuring a couple of nearby points of reception.

We have to understand the acoustics of this, and I don’t think that we’ve done a great job in terms of understanding that. So I just wanted to put that out there. In terms of the hours of operation, I don’t think it would be a good idea, and I’m not going to support just granting a blanket extension until midnight, because if you grant the extension until midnight, presumably it’s gonna be programmed during that last hour. I like the suggestion that was made, that we maybe need to leave a little bit of extra time to make up for canceled parts of what’s already been scheduled.

Nobody wants to show up for a show and have the reason they came canceled. I’m wondering through staff, is there some way that something flexible like that could be accommodated into the issue of the hours of operation? Thank you, Councillor, I’ll go to Ms. Smith.

Thank you, and through the chair, as we have done once or twice in the past, through delegated authority, I can give permission to extend, for example, in weather events. I have done that once or twice under my purview when the weather has caused a cancellation and we’ve extended for half an hour. So that is already included as part of the policy. So if I understand your answer then to the chair, we can keep it at 11 o’clock and still have that flexibility for canceled portions of the program.

Is that right? Thank you, through the chair, that is correct. Okay. - With the chair, I don’t— I’m sorry, do the chair.

Would any changes to this resolution be needed in order to encourage staff to look at some of the particular issues that are being discussed here? Or are you going to take into account the feedback that you’re hearing today? Thank you, Councillor, Ms. Smith.

Thank you, and through the chair, in September, we brought forward a proposed policy and that was the one we went out and engaged on. So currently that proposed policy says, sound and go to a midnight amplified sound in the downtown areas. So if you want to make any changes to the proposed policy, we would need a direction to do that today to then go to council. And then in December, we would bring back that revised policy to committee.

Thank you, Councillor. Has any effort been made to gauge the amount of time it takes concert goers to, at the end of the performances, to get up, gather their things, get back to their cars? Do we have a sense of how long that takes? Because what we heard from the neighborhood representative was that this is something that can take a while and it does have an impact on the neighborhood later on.

Do we have a sense of how long that takes? And let me be very, very specific and let’s talk about Harris Park. Thank you, Councillor, I will go to Ms. Pollock.

Thank you, and through the chair. So we don’t have an exact time for you, but of course we all attend these events and it can take several hours for the entire area to clear. We don’t have that data though, to share for this conversation, thank you. Okay.

  • Thank you, Councillor. So really in reality, in fact, on the ground, when we talk about an 11 o’clock shutdown time, we’re really not talking about all the impacts when the neighborhood are done at 11 and consequently the same thing if we extend it an hour. Now, the next question I want to raise deals with the difference between fees and the fee schedule and fines. Because while you represent that the fee schedule is going to be looked at comprehensively later on, the question of fines is within this document.

So I want to raise a concern that to have a $200 loss of, I guess that’s in the nature of a fine, is it could be a lot for a small operator, but it could be insignificant for a large operator. Would there be some way of instead of using one number, one size fits all, to have more of a scaled schedule, especially if we’re dealing with on the one hand and not profit, not for profit, or community group, and on the other hand, a for profit operator, would that be possible to write into the rules? Thank you, Councillor, Ms. Pollock.

Yeah, thank you for the question and through the chair. It is possible we’d have to take that back and have conversations with our legal department because we would have to clarify categories of events in order to ensure a fair and transparent process for all of the event operators. What’s included in the policy is not a fee, it’s a security deposit and already built into the policy is the ability to approve special exemptions through the regulation clause. So we could approve exemptions for small event operators that would see the $2,000 security as a barrier to operating.

Thank you. And at the same, thank you to the chair at the same time then, for the very large operators, is there a way of having a larger figure? Thank you, Councillor, Ms. Pollock.

Yeah, thank you for the question and through the chair. The $2,000 was based off of our municipal scan and looking at what other cities are doing and it was deemed to be a reasonable measure, but we are at council’s will if they wish to increase that deposit. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor, through the chair, please.

You have 52 seconds left. I understand that, so would you need further direction from council if we wanted to look at increasing that security deposit for operators who have maybe revenues over a certain amount? Thank you, Ms. Pollock.

Thank you and through the chair, yes, we would. Thank you, Council. That would need to be an amendment today if I understand that through the chair, yes. Okay, just finally to say thank you very much for including the water aspect of this.

This has been very problematic in the past and I’m really glad to see that you’ve included that. And for the most part, I think this is a document that I can support, but there are a few changes that I would like to see. You Councillor, I have Councillor Preble next. You have four minutes and 13 seconds.

Against through the chair to the staff and my full councilors mentioned the orientation week and I just want to inform him and that actually my award this year, I believe was even more influenced by those first orientation week celebrations. And I did have a meeting with Mr. May, there’s a Mr. Catolic and we talked about or they proposed certain proactive actions for next year.

So we don’t go through another year where we did this year. And I was really happy with what I heard, but I just want to give you an opportunity if you wanted to address or make any comments towards this event for next year. I’ll leave it up to you, but I do liken your suggestions for the proactive actions for the following year. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. I have Councillor Raman next. Can I just make a point? Sorry, Councillor, I missed you there.

I am gonna go to committee member first, Councillor Raman and then I’ll come back to you. So Councillor Macalese. I just want to make a point of order that apparently we’re having technical issues and nobody can hear, well, Councillor Trusso can, but I’m getting messages saying that they can’t hear. Thank you, Councillor, just give me a second.

Okay, we’re just gonna take a little pause to get that sound back on. Okay, we’re gonna need some time to fix these technical difficulties. So I’m gonna ask the committee for a small reset, but before I do that, I just want to look at IT just to see how much time they might need. Okay, look at the committee.

We need to go on a little recess. 15 minutes is what has been requested me from IT, so I’m just looking for a motion. Moved by Councillor McAllister, seconded by me. Calling the question.

Let’s do that by hand, all in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. Okay, we have a recess for 15 minutes.

We will be back at 150. All right, everybody. Thank you for just waiting for those IT issues. Now we were unable to get that resolved, so apparently the Zoom recording is working, so we will be posting that online at the end of this meeting.

Okay, so leaving off, we were on items 3.1, and I believe the last speaker was Councillor Pribble, and he was asking staff for some comments or questions, so I’m just gonna look at Councillor Pribble just to see if he wants to continue. Councillor? Yes, I would like to continue, and I would like to receive a feedback from our staff. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. Do you mind just reiterating the questions and the comments that you had previously? I won’t count that to your time. Yes, in my comments, they were including the first week of orientation at Western University, and the meeting that I had with Mr.

Madis and Mr. Catholic, and some proactive actions, proposals that came from our staff. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor.

I will look to Mr. Collek. Yes, through the chair, thanks for that question. In the past, we have had information from both Western and Fanshawe on their frost week events.

We will endeavor in the future to get that information earlier on in the year and ask for more specific information on the sound design, on the stage location. We had no idea where Western was setting up their stage and what direction it was pointing at this year. It was a little bit of a switch from previous years. And we also, within our sound by-law, have a clause that we can engage the services of a professional engineer at the cost of the event coordinator.

So we’ve suggested that to event coordinators previously. This is outside of the special events policy because it is on private land and Western and Fanshawe have a specific clause within the sound by-law. So we will attempt to more proactively address these issues in 2026, 2025. Thank you, Mr.

Collek. Councillor? Thank you. No more questions?

Thank you, Councillor. I have Councillor Raman next. Please go ahead. Thank you and through you.

First, I want to say thank you to staff for the work on the special events policy. I noticed that in the consultation with residents, residents that were consulted were mainly in the downtown core. I’m just wondering if residents in the Hyde Park area were also consulted recently about any changes to special event policy. Thank you, Councillor Smith.

Thank you and through the chair, we posted a Get Involved survey and promoted that through a number of social media networks. So that was open to all Londoners across the entire city. And then on top of that, Council directed us to hold a community meeting for those neighborhood community associations and residents living specifically in the downtown. So our Get Involved survey was promoted far and wide across for all Londoners to respond to.

Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. I appreciate that. I know there are some concerns with residents around the Hyde Park Village Green.

I did have questions regarding 4.5, the accessibility, see, it reads as a event operators will comply with the accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act. I wanna just look into that a little bit further and get some more information from you on that matter. Specifically and through you, Chair, I’m just wondering in summer 2024, there were updates to the special events and AODA compliance documentation from the province. Part of that update includes a more extensive need for accessibility considerations with events and being that we’re considering doing a centralized portal where people can book tickets and things like that from, I’m just wondering how will that compliance and that duty to comply fall within the city as well as the event organizer?

And then I have some follow up questions on that. Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Ms. Palak.

Thank you and through the chair. The requirement in the policy is specific to making sure that event operators are in compliance with the legislation, but in addition, there is an administrative procedures manual that will be supplementary to the policy and it will have a template that will help event operators understand their requirements and responsibilities that templates being developed through our anti-racism and anti-oppression division and in consultation with the Accessibility Advisory Committee. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor.

Thank you. And through the Get Involved site and through our advocacy, for instance, with our Accessibility Committee for the City, have they been needing recommendations that further supersede what’s in the update to the legislation in terms of how people access any particular supports at some of these events? Thank you, Ms. Palak.

Thank you and through the chair. No, we have not heard anything that would be in addition or above and beyond the legislative requirements, but we do recognize that there are specialized event spaces and so we will have specialized instructions and support for event operators in London. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor.

Thank you. I really do think that we have the opportunity to really bring our events in the community alongside making them more accessible this coming year and going forward by way of strengthening our policy and procedure. And as you mentioned, with just even adding as an appendix to the procedure, that new special events documentation for 2024 that was just updated this summer. One of those things is for the public to be able to access things like hearing support at events.

So right now, the onus is really on the individual to communicate with the event organizers of their needs when they’re attending events. If we have a centralized portal, it would be wonderful to see accessibility at the forefront of that portal and how we make that event as accessible as possible. So having things like drop downs and menus where people can actually outline the accessibility support they need when they’re purchasing a ticket at a ticketed event or how to better engage with the event organizer on what the opportunities are to receive accessibility supports at the site. I do think that there is a lot of work that we can be doing as a community to embrace making our events more accessible.

And so how we do that is I think we have to set the gold standard. And so my personal thought on this is I would love to see us go further with the tools and resources we have. The other thing is I’m not sure that all event organizers know that if they have more than one staff, they are to provide training on accessibility to their staff. I’m just wondering how we’ll go about communicating that with event organizers.

Thank you, counselor, Ms. Pellek. Thank you and through the chair. We will be promoting and holding meetings and explaining the changes that happen through this process with event operators.

We’ll be offering one-on-one support. So we will make sure that the changes are communicated widely to all of those folks that are looking to host events in London. And I think in addition, the templates that are created in a consultation with the accessibility advisory committee in our ARIO division will be offering capacity building opportunities and training on what those templates look like. Thank you.

Thank you, counselor. Thank you. And through you, I also had a question about 4.8 transportation to events. Specifically under part A, it says event organizers or operators, sorry, will promote active and public transportation options for the public to attend special events.

I’m just wondering with events at High Park Village Green, this is something that I know the BIA has been involved in conversations with as well as others that activate the space. Being that there is no onsite parking and parking does seem to be an issue. They’ve made arrangements and special arrangements to be able to use nearby lots. But there’s a segment, instead of setting people all the way around into High Park Village Green from Gainesboro onto High Park, there is a small pathway that exists between a woodlot.

And I’m just wondering, I know that as the High Park BIA activates the space alongside the lions and other groups, one of the things they do is they actually put volunteers at both entrances to help promote the community walking through that area. Of course, it is very muddy and things like that. So I’m just wondering if there’s any plans to work with the High Park BIA and others on making that an accessible path. Thank you, Councillor.

I will go to Mr. yeoman. Thank you, through you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Councillor, for that. We are actively working on that with the BIA as well. It is on our capital program for next year to make improvements and make sure the linkages are there. Thank you, Councillor, you have 18 seconds.

Okay, Councillor Raman is done. I will look to committee for any other comments, none. I would look to my fabulous vice chair to fly for a second. I’d like to make some comments and possibly an amendment.

Thank you, I have the chair recognizing Councillor Ferra. Thank you, presiding officer. So I have made comments on this before and I do gotta say, I really appreciate again, the work the staff has done. I made those comments already, so I will not continue.

But I am still kind of holding on the position of just that hour extension from the 11 to 12 for the amplified sound. As I said, like I, myself, in about 900 meters direct line of sight from Harris Park, I can hear it very clearly. I do get some regular feedback when we have events. I do enjoy the events.

I’m just looking for that balance for the community. I would also point out that, like downtown, we do have a big change going on. We do know that there’s gonna be a lot more residential, so it is a little bit more on the neighborhood side than it was in the past, and that’s probably how it is gonna be moving in the future. So with that, I do have an emotion, and that motion is to not extend the amplified sound to 12 and leave it at 11, but to also, within exceptional circumstances, give the deputy city manager the ability to extend any type of event, considering whatever the case may be, to 60 minutes rather than 45 minutes that is previously within the report or in the policy.

So that does give the ability for the deputy city manager case by case, to extend an event if there is a rain, like rainfall or any type of issue that may hold something up, you still have that ability, so we can still hold those events. So that is my motion. I do want to circulate that to committee, and I would move that motion, and I would look for a seconder on that. Thank you, does the clerk have the wording already?

Okay, so that’s just going into E-Scribe and up on the screen. I’ll give colleagues a moment to see that. Councilor Trousa, is this you, seconding? Yes.

Okay, so it is officially on the floor with a mover of Councilor Ferrer and a seconder in Councilor Trousa, starting my speaker’s list on the amendment that you see in E-Scribe and on the screen. There’s gonna be no questions or comments, we could call the question. Okay, Councilor McAllister. Thank you through the presenting officer.

So I’m just looking in terms of the review that already was undertaken. If staff could speak to the reasoning in terms of raising from 11 to 12, was this something in terms of feedback we received from special events coordinators that they really needed that extra hour? I’m just wondering if we can get more clarity on that. Thank you, Ms.

Smith. Thank you and through the chair. Thank you for the question. The proposed change to the policy was based on conversations we had when we first initiated a review of the special events policy with event organizers.

In addition to that, currently in the downtown at Covent Garden Market, amplified sound is allowed to go to midnight. So we were also looking at aligning the times with respect to what is already happening in the downtown on both Dundas Place, Harris Park and Victoria Park. Councilor McAllister. Thank you for the presenting officer.

Just a follow up to that. Sorry, I got distracted by what was going on back there. That’s my train of thought, excuse me a second. In terms of what’s been proposed in the amendment delegated authority, could you maybe elaborate in terms of under what conditions you’d use that?

I know you previously mentioned in terms of extreme weather events, but is there any other time you’d use that or just in those cases? Ms. Smith. Thank you and through the chair.

I have used the delegated authority twice in the past and both were for weather events and it was thunder and lightning, where we had to stop for the safety of the performers and of course the safety of Londoners. We had to pause the event. So we paused the events both time and then we’re able to start them up and that allowed the music to continue, which is you could imagine for event organizers and people attending. These are very large events and so we didn’t want to, we didn’t want to miss out on the potential costs and ramifications of having to cancel the event, which we would have if it continued, the extreme weather.

Councillor McAllister. Thank you and again through the presiding officer. In terms of the economic impact of having that extra hour, was that something that was identified in terms of the feedback that was making a difference for events that they needed that extra hour to make the event viable? So staff?

Thank you for the question and through the chair. It was more about flexibility for things like performer encores or last minute schedule changes than economic impact. Thank you. Councillor Fauci, you’re good.

Hey, Councillor Travsau, I didn’t know, sorry. Did you have your hand up to speak to this? Okay, go ahead. Yes, very briefly and I won’t repeat the things I said before.

I think that if we’re going to extend the hours, there should be a stronger showing in the record, in the report, and this goes to the last question specifically through the presiding officer. I don’t think that’s been done. And for Councillors to have to ask that question, to me demonstrates that we really need to keep the status quo unless a compelling argument can be made. Now that compelling argument, maybe it can be made.

I don’t know, but I haven’t heard it. So I am certainly going to support the amendment. I’d like to suggest an amendment to the amendment or maybe even a friendly amendment. And that is, Steph also look at the question of a potential graduated security deposit, which I think is within the scope of what’s in this report that’s before us today.

So I think with that, I’m not going to repeat the other points that I made before. Thank you. And I would look for a second on that or some feedback. OK, I guess essentially that be adding a part B onto this, making this an A.

I just don’t have the clerk next to me. I think, Steph, said they were looking at that for the end of the year when that report came back anyways, but looking to see if there would be a seconder as Councillor Troso stated for the graduated security deposit. Looking in chambers, I do not see one. Looking again, Councillor, there seems to be none in chambers for you today, which would still just put us back to the motion that’s currently on the floor, looking to see if you had any further comments on that, as you still have time.

Looking to see the other speakers, Councillor Pervall. Thank you. And I will not be supporting the proposed motion that’s currently on the table. I will stick what we have in our report from the staff in terms of the bring forward and amended special events policy at the December 2nd, CAHPS meeting.

I will wait for that. And just one of the things— and I mentioned it last time as well— that actually think that 11 o’clock for downtown businesses, or certainly the ones that are open late, would have a stronger impact, because I do believe that if people leave at 11 o’clock, there are more to go out to the establishments that are open till 1 a.m. So I think that’s why I talked kind of this reasoning last time, and we mentioned it. But in terms of this, I really think that what staff said, that to align it together, would be already have at the market where it is at midnight.

So we have a truly level playing field and have the opportunity for the organizers to maximize these events. So personally, I will support it when it comes back. I would support the extension. Having said that, I really think that we need to be going forward if this passes to midnight.

And then really, if there are certain organizers that we feel that are not responsible, doesn’t matter if it’s the decibels, or if it’s the not potentially hiring the engineer, et cetera, then we might have to take it one organizer, one by one. But for now, I would like us to create a level playing field and have a fair for all the organizers. Doesn’t matter if it’s half a kilometer to the left to the east or to the west. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Ferrer. You have one minute and 30 seconds used. Please proceed. For the amendment?

Yeah, I counted your time when you were introducing it. All right, well, I would say that if we want to make everything balanced and level, we can’t just focus on businesses and the organizers. We also have residents downtown as well. And these residents are asking me to do this.

This is why we have this. I would also say that if we ended at 11 rather than 12, that would leave more time for people to filter into any type of restaurants or bars and spend their money. It’s a very simple one extra hour where people are not at the event. They can go in and they can start shopping.

So I do believe this amendment would actually help the business a little bit more. I’d also say that if you read this amendment, you will see that it is giving the deputy city manager an extra 15 minutes for those exceptional circumstances. Because in the current policy, it is 45 minutes to extend. The reason we went to 60 on that second part of the amendment would be to allow the deputy city manager to make that choice case by case if we need that extension of time.

So this is the balance that I’m proposing. I ended at 11 because people downtown and people around in the area are asking for this. But it also gives that discretion to the deputy city manager case by case to extend if they need to. I’d also add that we did get some communications from some of the organizers saying that they wouldn’t necessarily need to go to the 12 o’clock hour.

They would be finishing at 11 o’clock. So because of that feedback, because of the feedback that we’ve gotten from residents, that I’ve gotten from residents, and that whole balance perspective, it gives more time for people to walk in to bars or restaurants to spend their money. So economically, the impact on this motion would be more beneficial than the 12 o’clock motion. That’s why I’m looking for support for this.

And that’s why this motion is directed in that way. Thank you, looking through those further speakers before calling the question. Seeing none, calling the question. Custom votes, yes.

Closing the vote, the motion fails two to three. Thank you, as that resolves the amendment. That was on the floor, returning the control of the chair to Councillor Ferra. Thank you, all right, that is the amendment to the amendment.

I believe that would be the end of that item, just a second. OK, so now we’re back at the main staff recommendation. So I do have some speakers that I’ve already spoke, so I will look at committee and member visiting members. None.

OK, let’s call the question. Custom votes, yes. Is there a privilege? Could I actually get a clarification?

Just want to make sure that what are we voting on? Can I get a clarification, please? So this is the main motion, and it’s supposed to be the report from staff’s engagement with the public to be received. Thank you.

Closing the vote, the motion carries 5 to 0. Now we are on items for direction. There was two items pulled. That was 2.2 property standards related demolition, and then 2.3 parks and recreation master plan update.

I will begin with 2.2 looking to committee to move the item on the floor. Moved by Councillor Palosa, seconded by Councillor McAllister. Looking to committee for any comments or questions? Councillor McAllister.

Thank you, and through the chair, first off, appreciate by-law bringing this forward. This is definitely a property that is high on my list. In terms of feedback, I often receive from more residents. Depends what they grew up with it being.

Was a Dominion Grocery Store at one point, then a bingo hall, then a buffet. And it’s been, unfortunately, a real problem property in the last few years. The property was rezoned for residential. I mean, ultimately, we want to see the properties utilized for what they were rezoned for.

But when the properties are left derelict, and the owners don’t actually keep the properties up to code, we get into situations like this, unfortunately. So I thank staff for the work they’ve done on this. I hear constantly from residents that this is a real problem property. There’s been break-ins, vandalism, illegal dumping.

And on October, there was a fire at the property as well. So I’m asking for support from committee and ultimately council to please have this property torn down. It’s sat vacant for too long, and it really is a public safety concern for residents at this point. So I’m looking for your support.

Thank you. Anybody else on committee? Councilor— Thank you, staff. Very happy to see this in the report.

I do drive in that era regularly. And the sooner, the better for everyone. Thank you. Anybody else?

Visiting members. Oh, I got councilor trust with your next. Go ahead, sir. Do you mind unmuting your mic?

Thank you very much through the chair. I certainly concur with the substance of this motion. This property needs to be removed. It’s a derelict property.

It’s a nuisance property. And according to the staff report, under the summary in the last sentence, it says it’s been neglected for several years. So I guess my question is, how does it get to the point of being neglected for several years? Why wasn’t this action taken earlier?

And that’s a direct question to the staff. Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Mr. Catola.

Yes, through the chair, thank you for that question. We use a progressive enforcement protocol for these vacant buildings. Since the original building has been vacant, we have issued $3,100 in administrative monetary penalties. We have also taken numerous actions in terms of boarding up the building, cleaning up the property, removing graffiti to a fee of $7,300, which are directly added to the taxes of the property in addition to our inspection fees and other administration fees.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor, your mute, I believe, my two. Through the chair, a follow-up, you speak of a progressive enforcement protocol. And I’m really glad that you used the term protocol.

And my question is, what is this protocol? Is this protocol something that exists in writing in your department? It’s a question. Thank you, Councillor.

Mr. Catola. Thank you for the question. And through the chair, we have a council policy on municipal compliance.

And in that council policy, it gives our officers discretion. Each of our files is different in nature. And we have discretion to use a number of different tools, starting from warnings to court actions and everything in between. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you very much, and to follow-up. And I think it’s important, just as a point of reference, to remind everyone that the discretion that this council grants to this department is very different than the discretion that the building officer has, which is statutory, whereas this discretion is granted by council. So I think it would be within the scope of council’s authority here to ask if, perhaps, without taking away your discretion, because we all realize that there’s case-by-case differences.

But might it not be useful, at this point, to try to articulate, in a more precise written policy, the processes, protocols, and timelines for not minor code violations, but significant substantial code violations that rise to the level of a public nuisance? Thank you, Councillor, Mr. Mather. Through the chair, so I wouldn’t make any specific recommendations without having legal in on that conversation, as to this is— there’s a very specific case law that we deal with with these related work that is undertaken in municipal compliance.

So I would also rely on them to be able to provide some feedback, but I wouldn’t recommend any changes until we engage legal. Thank you, Mr. Mathers. Councillor— To follow-up through the chair, without stopping this meeting, to ask to go into closed session without having any preparation for Council.

I’m wondering if you could bring us back to the Council meeting that information, because I am inclined to want to add an amendment to this, asking for your department. And I don’t want to legislate what that is right now and put it on the table. But I do want to ask your department, if you could come back with more information about whether that’s feasible. Or I guess I could put that request on the table right now, and that would give you ample time to discuss with Council whether that’s feasible.

So, Chair— In order, go ahead, state your point. I don’t necessarily have a problem with what the Councillor’s asking, but I don’t think it’s directly related to what is before us right now. So I think the Councillor’s comments are more reserved for bringing something back in a different format. But for what we’re asking for, this is a demo for a very specific property.

And if I can respond to that— Hold on, Councillor, just a second. I’m going to accept that point of order. Councillor, we need to be specific to the item. OK.

Specific to this item is the fact that in my view, and what’s admitted in the report, is that these violations have set there too long. And when I ask a question about what your protocol is, I just get a very, very vague, we have this question. And this is not the first time that derelict properties like this have come to the council table for demolition. We see this.

It’s a recurring problem. It happens again and again. And what I would like to know, if today is not the proper time to do it, which I think it is, but you’re ruling, I’m not going to challenge you’re ruling, how do we go about initiating this discussion? Because we just cannot have this continue.

Thank you, Councillor. I was just concur, speaking with the clerk, you are able to bring that to a future meeting of the committee. But I do ask you if we can just keep to the item that we are discussing, but you are more than welcome to bring that to a future meeting of this committee. Thank you.

And finally, through the chair, I will certainly do that. And again, I’m grateful that staff has brought this to us for a demolition. But I think the public interest would be better served if we had a better idea of what the timeline was on this, because this is set there too long. Nonetheless, I will support this motion.

Thank you, Councillor. Looking to committee, Councillor McAllister, you have three minutes and 46 seconds. Thank you, and through the chair to the question about timelines, which I agree with Councillor Traslow on, I think I would be remiss without asking that. I’ve been pleased in terms of previous demos we’ve done in my award, the progress that has been made.

But I would like to know in terms of next steps what we anticipate in terms of timeline for demo of this property. Thank you, Councillor, Mr. Kacole. Yes, through the chair, once assuming council approves this, we will do a designated substance survey.

And that survey will identify any hazardous materials in the building. That designated substance survey will then form part of a procurement process. Because of the size of the building, this will definitely be over 15,000 to demolish. And the designated substance survey recommendations would have to be taken into account as part of the demolition.

So my estimate would be this is between three and six months to demolish, but it highly depends on what we get back from the procurement. Thank you, Councillor McAllister. Thank you, and through the chair. Appreciate that answer.

I know residents anxiously await the property being dealt with. I do just want to end on this note. I don’t love getting the reputation as being a bit of a demo guy, as some people have referred to me. But really, I’m trying to send a signal in that please secure your sites.

Use them for what you’ve asked them to be used for. We are in a housing crisis. I want to see these sites redeveloped. And I don’t like having to come to committee and council to ask for these demolitions.

This is something I want private property owners to initiate. But at the end of the day, I like that we have this as a last recourse because we need to send a signal that you cannot leave these properties to decay. It’s not helping the neighborhood. Residents are upset with it.

It causes a lot of problems. And lenders are quite frankly fed up. So thank you for putting this demo forward. And once again, I ask for your support.

Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Apologies, for calling you the demo guy before this meeting. Councillor Trosto, you have one minute and two seconds. Go ahead.

Thank you, quick question. Steph mentioned procurement and getting studies done. This will all be done at the expense of the property owner. Is that correct?

Thank you, Mr. Colley. Through the chair, yes. Thank you, Councillor.

Yes, last question. Are you able to give this committee a rough estimate as to, I’m not sure the term is how much equity or how much of a lean the city has on this property now. But how much of an interest does the city actually have on this property now when you take this all in? This is just informational.

Thank you, Councillor. I’ll go to Mr. Colley. Through the chair, thank you for the question.

As I mentioned, we already have issued $7,300 in contractor fees, another 3,100 in administrative monetary penalties. My estimation of the demolition and the designated substance survey will approach six figures. So this will be likely over 100,000 added to the tax role if the property owner does not pay the fees. Thank you, Councillor.

Trustee, you have 30 seconds. Thank you, no further questions. Thank you, Councillor. Can you do a committee?

Last call. Anyone online? Councillor, I see your hands up and you’re taking it down. OK, let’s call the question.

Trustee votes, yes. Closing the vote, the motion carries 5 to 0. OK, we are on our next poll item from the consent for items for direction. It is item 2.3 Parks and Recreation Master Plan.

I am excited about this one. So I do want to go to staff and get a summary if you’re able. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And through you, we share that excitement as well. There are a number of city teams that are before you today asking for your endorsement and support for launching the update for our Parks and Rec Master Plan. We do the plan generally every five years that’s looking at our capital infrastructure needs throughout the city and what we need to do to provide Support Services and Parks and Forestry Services for the community as well. What we’ve articulated for you here is a timeline for the project that includes an extensive community engagement as well, which is an important component of this review as well.

We’ve also articulated the scope that we’re looking to do with this review. You’ll note that it is fairly involved in the Parks side, more so than the facility and community center side. We recognize there’s been a number of legislative changes that have come that have more affected the Parks side. And we’ve got a lot of feedback from the community that they’re looking for more ideas and more opportunities to engage on Parks matters as well.

So we’re really going to be working towards getting our handle on our growth needs, our service improvement needs, really looking at the user experience for Parks and then bringing that back to you for approval in the draft late next year final report in early 2026 in order to fit in with the development charges background study in the multi-year budget. So with that, I’ll turn things back to you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr.

yeoman. Looking to committee. I have Councillor Trussle first and Councillor McAllister. Councillor Trussle.

Thank you very much. And through the chair, I pulled this because I do have one pressing question that I think could lead to an amendment. And that is when you get to part B and you list what’s endorsed for review with the update, in part Ix, you list a couple of specific things. And what I feel is missing from that list is public washrooms.

Could you advise me why public washrooms was not included there or is it included some to myself? Or have we already dealt with this? But why is that not there? Thank you, Councillor, Mr.

yeoman. Through you, Mr. Chair, that’s a great question. Public washrooms are in parks and recreation facilities.

They’re already built into the service standard that we have. So it’s implicit in the review. That’s actually going to be occurring. The services that are identified there are services.

We actually don’t have provision targets for and service standards at the moment. They’ve been identified in previous master plan and previous reports that have come to council as well. We really do want to get a handle on them for the community and make sure that we know that we’re delivering on the future. So happy to have that.

Thank you, Councillor. Yes, thank you. And that’s a very good answer to my question. Unfortunately, when one reads the four corners of this document— this is through the chair— when one reads the four corners of this document, you see this list.

And it doesn’t say, including, but not limited to or such as. And my worry is that that’s going to be missed by a lot of people. Would it create a problem for you if we added the word public washroom to nine? Or if we did do that, add something saying, it’s being noted that public washroom standards are already included in our evaluation.

Thank you, Councillor. I’m going to go to the staff in a second. But before I go to staff, I just want to remind committee, the gracious clerk, has reminded me that we don’t have anything moved or seconded on the floor. So after I get staff to answer this question, I am going to look to committee to move and second this item.

So please go ahead. That was a question for staff. Mr. yeoman.

Forgive me, Mr. Chair. I thought you were trying to get someone to move and second the report. Oh, I was OK.

We’ll stop now. And I will go to you for the council’s question. But I am looking for someone to move. OK, Councillor Pribble, Councillor McCallister, seconded.

OK, now let’s go back to the question for Councillor Tresson. Thank you, Mr. Chair, through you. We’re definitely in committee’s hand here and happy to have that specificity that’s built in.

I do understand the concern that the public may not see that from the report. We’ll definitely make sure that that’s part of the engagement. As it rolls out and the information that’s out, there’s the community is aware of it. Thank you, Councillor.

Yeah, in which case I would just like to make a very, very slight amendment heading towards public washroom to be subdivision IX. OK, looking for a seconder. Seconded by Councillor Pribble. OK, looking for speakers to the amendment.

OK, none. Let’s call the question. Councillor votes, yes. Seeing the vote, the motion carries 5 to 0.

OK, back on the main motion as amended. Oh, I do have actually— Councillor McCallister is next. Actually, hold on, hold on. Sorry, just a second.

Councillor Troso, before I go to Councillor McCallister, I noticed that you didn’t speak on the amendment. I just wanted to go back to you before I go to Councillor McCallister on the amended motion. I would say that I made the amendment so I’d be in favor of it. And I don’t think there’s any dispute as to whether or not washrooms are an important component here.

So it’s really just a question of wording. I don’t— from what I hear, I don’t think the amendment changes the substance of this more. But it makes it more clear and more precise. No order.

Just a second. He asked me the question. I’m trying to answer it. Yeah, the E-Scribe vote did pass successful unanimous to get washrooms in just for the— I don’t know that Councillor Troso’s not an E-Scribe.

So we’re back on the main motion as amended with washrooms in it as that was 100% successful. Thank you, Councillor. I’m going to go back to Councillor Troso if you wanted to make any other comments. No, the amendment has been passed.

So I don’t think I need to respond to it anymore. OK, thank you. I have Councillor McAllister next. Thank you through the chair.

I just have a few questions on some parts of this. In terms of BIV, if staff could speak a bit more in terms of what they’re looking for for equity and inclusion strategies and opportunities, I’m just curious. And I’m sure the public would be in terms of what they’re looking for for that. Thank you, Councillor.

Mr. yeoman. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and through to you.

So the 2018 Parks and Rec Master Plan predated a lot of the city’s work related to anti-racism and anti-oppression. There are some linkages that are in there we’re setting up for a lot of that work that was coming forward. What we really want to do though is to work with that team as part of our steering committee, continue to work with the community as well and identify what other opportunities there are to dig deeper on this matter going forward. Thank you, Councillor.

Thank you, through the chair. I would also like to say in terms of equity, I mean, I would also view that in terms of understanding the social economic background of the city, recognizing in terms of areas where they don’t have as many opportunities, that public facilities are really folks-only option. So just keeping that on the radar, I have a number of facilities where I hear that a lot. Really, it’s the only facility or park space that they can utilize.

So I appreciate the answer in terms of that work that needs to be included, but also keeping that in mind as well. I’m also wondering in terms of park types, where would district level parks fall? Because I know in terms of the undertaking, those are almost, I don’t want to say multi-generational, but they’re larger undertakings. If you’d speak a bit more to that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m going to use a fancy work of park typologies that we’re going to be reviewing as part of this. Basically, how do we classify our parks?

What should the public expect from certain park types all the way from a very small, very focused neighborhood park and facility, all the way up to the ones that are providing more of a regional benefit and a draw? So we’ve got a bit of work, I think, to do there in terms of looking at what the lay of the land is currently, and then what adjustments need to be made going forward? And how do we really set things up well for the community? Thank you, Councillor.

Thank you, and once again, through the chair. I’m also wondering in terms of the work that will go into this, I always notice with master plans, I appreciate the long-term planning that goes into it. I think it’s necessary, but I do recognize there’s always budget asks with it. From what I understand, this would more hit us in the next cycle, but recognizing, obviously, there are servicing demands on parks right now that are great.

Will anything be coming back in the interim, or is this essentially, we’re parking this plan and we won’t make any decisions on this until the next multi-year? Thank you, Councillor, Mr. yeoman. Thank you, through you, Mr.

Chair. So we’ll continue to advance the capital budget that we have that’s informed by the 2019 master plan, while this work is all underway. Should the report the actual master plan that Council adopts have greater service improvement needs or growth needs, those will be reflected in both the development charges study and in future capital budget submissions for the next multi-year budget. And then at that point, Council can determine, how do they want to provide a service for that?

We’ll have costing information though that will be coming out of this, so you’ll have some of that information to inform that, so for some of those future decisions. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you and through the chair once again, and recognizing that a lot’s changed since 2019, I appreciate the undertaking, and this is a lot of work, but I would say the growth is already upon us, and so I personally don’t have a problem if parks has to come to an annual update and say, look, we can’t wait till the next multi-year budget, so I recognize this is the master plan, but I also get a lot of feedback in terms of parks and the need to increase servicing in our current growth forecast. Thank you.

Councillor Perbault. Thank you, Mr. Chair, to the staff. This is the projected growth for our city and the residential units we are approving.

I want us to believe that this and mobility transportation master plan are key to the future quality of life for all the lenders, and we really must get it right. And I have a question for you on page 64, when I look at the timeline, and if you can maybe explain this one to me, the submission is Q1/2026 of the master plan update for Council approval. Then the paragraph before it states into 2028 development charges background study, and the study word is a little bit puzzling for me because we need the next multiyear budget is 28 to 31. And my question is, is the study gonna go beyond, or is the study going to be done so all this will be able to be included in the following multiyear budget?

And please, it’s not just out of here, so no, if you could go into more detail, I would appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Through you, Mr.

Chair, I’m having to provide some clarification on that. So the development charges background study, the bylaw date will be effective as of 2028, that’s when the new rates will be in. So there’s quite a bit of work that has to go into that to actually do the calculations to get there. So master plans need to be completed early in 2026 in order to then to have the modeling occur throughout that process, to actually have the bylaw approved in 2027 for that.

So what we’re looking at with this is needs that will be identified, that’ll be factored into that more long range planning for revenue collection for supporting our infrastructure, but also will be factored into the capital forecast. It’ll be in the multiyear budget. So it’ll be for the next multiyear budget period and then beyond that as well too. Thank you, Councilor.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So what I’m hearing is that we will have all the steps done. So when we get to the planning of 2028 in 2027, we will be baking the best, the most accurate decision based on what we will be receiving from the staff.

Mr. Chairman. Through you, Mr. Chair, that’s correct.

And that’s why we do have a fairly aggressive timeline here to make sure that decision points are before council for the next multiyear budget to factor in with the collection of other needs that council will be considering at that time. Thank you, Councilor. Thank you very much. No more questions?

Thank you, Councilor. Looking for further comments, questions? Councilor Robin. Thank you and through you.

First, my appreciation for the report that’s in front of us today and the recommendations that are provided here in. I wanted to just ask a question in the fall, the part B where it says what the scope of the work is. In the current master plan, it talks a little bit about London being the lowest park maintenance operating cost per capita. Not something I think we should be proud of, but that’s I think it’s something that we need to spend more money on.

But I will say that it says it’s outside of the scope to talk about the operational service delivery standard. I’m just wondering what that difference is between the reference in the current plan versus what we’re doing for the future plan. Thank you, Councilor, Mr. Yomatt.

Through you, Mr. Chair. So that’s a great question and that is an interesting stat that does reflect on on a regular basis. Yes, it’s indicated that the operational needs are outside the scope of this.

However, they are informed by the results of this. So this report is really looking, this study will look at what the infrastructure needs, what are the parks going to be looking like, and then from there we factor in what that looks like in order to maintain. We’re obviously having a bit of an iterative process with that, but separate to this work, there’s something in Council’s strategic plan with direction for us to actually be reviewing our operating service standards to make sure that they’re keeping current and we’ll be bringing that forward as well. So they’re running part in parcel.

Thank you, Councilor. Thank you, much appreciated. When it comes to our conversations with the public, using our get involved in other methods and I’m really looking forward to some school level engagement on this as well, I’m wondering how we’ll capture climate change. So in my ward in particular, I have a lot of residents that tell me that in order to access facilities, especially recreational facilities, ice time, they have to drive from the north end to the south or the east or somewhere else.

And I’m just wondering how do we capture that in terms of our climate, well, in terms of our climate plan and the fact that people are saying they’re having to drive across town a couple times a week in order to access facilities. Thank you, Councilor. I’ll go to staff. Thank you, and through the chair, we do recognize that some amenity types just can’t be built at a neighborhood level.

It is just too expensive and we’ve actually come away from, you used arenas as an example and we’ve actually moved away from neighborhood-based single pad facilities because they are very inefficient in terms of their cost and their utilization. And so arenas as an example are more of a supply of arenas across the ice, recognizing that some people will have to drive. There isn’t a high volume of people who walk to hockey ranks to begin with, with equipment and other things. So the reality for many sports is that there is not a high enough demand to be able to support neighborhood level facilities and that’s why they are considered either district or city-wide facilities.

I will just add that obviously the addition of what Council approved was the addition of live streaming equipment in some of our arenas and that provides another opportunity for people to watch hockey without having to travel. Thank you. Thank you, Councilor. Thank you.

I much appreciated the other questions I had regarding the equity diversity component of the plan going forward. And similar to the having to drive for services, I’ve heard concern from residents specifically around the need for more women’s only swim. How would we kind of capture that information in our data? So McGonigal.

Yeah, thank you through the chair. The reality for us is that we operate four indoor pools and we facilitate access to an additional two pools at startech.com and Stony Creek. So we are a little bit constrained simply by inventory and wherever possible we have worked hard to add the additional materials and supplies required, curtains, et cetera, that would help us support those women only swim opportunities. But we are a little bit constrained by the reality of the inventory available.

Thank you, Councilor. Thank you. And so when we look at things like equity, socioeconomic conditions, things like that, how do we overlay our neighborhood data with this information in order to inform the plan? And one of the concerns I hear is that this would be great to do in the near term and would this be something that we’d have to await the plan in order to be able to move forward with any opportunities.

Ms. Smith, thank you and for the chair. This is a really good question. And I think this also aligns with our play your way, our subsidy fund.

It also aligns with our request to waive fee for community centers and along with our user fees. And we do often, as you know now on holidays, PDAs, we offer a free programming for everyone and really looking at how we get that message out. So we, I think in 2025, my area is also reviewing our user fees. We’re reviewing our play your way subsidized program to making sure it meets the needs.

And we’re also reviewing our waive the fee policy for rental of space at our community centers. Our staff on my team recently took the training through ARAO on the equity tool. And we will be applying the equity tool and we continue now to apply the equity tool on all the programs. So regardless of this mid year, five year review, in our recreation programs and facilities, we are continually looking at what is the need, what is the demand engaging with the community to make our programs more equitable, more accessible as often as we can free so that we really bring our diversity of Londoners into our programs and our facilities.

So we’re actively working on that all the time. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you, I just have a couple more questions. In the current master plan, it talks about the 67% change for in terms of numbers of seniors in our community from 2021 to 2041.

And seeing that that trend is sticking with us, I’m just wondering what kind of seniors programming and engagement we’re looking to plan for because in the report initially, it mentioned therapeutic lines of planning. I’m just wondering if we’ll continue to explore those avenues or if that work of exploration was done in the previous plan. Thank you, Councillor Ms. Smith.

Thank you and to the chair, really good question. So on top of when we look at our provisional targets on our, we’re looking at not just population but demographic changes. We’re looking also best practices on new and evolving programs for seniors, older adults, for example. So we have ratios on what we do now for our community centers, our amenities and many of our programs.

So this will be part of this review too. And we will be coming back to you with some potential changes, with some enhancements and maybe with some changes to our current provisional targets for community centers and amenities and programs. Thank you, Councillor Almond, you have a minute and 47 seconds. So you’re doing okay.

Wonderful, thank you for the time check. My last question just pertains to outdoor basketball courts. So I know the previous plan identified that there were shortages and gaps with basketball courts. Have we closed that gap that was identified?

And I know in my ward in particular, there’s ongoing gaps and that’s something I hear quite often from residents. Very pleased to see one at the district park in Foxfield. Just wondering if there’s, when we were talking about in the earlier that there would be timeline or not timelines, expectations for how many per capita, how do we, do we have a basketball target as well? Okay, Councillor, how good is that?

Thank you, through you, Mr. Chair. So we are making progress. There are a number of amenities though we are not meeting the target on.

Well, I’ll be quite frank. I think that’s sort of reflected in the level of funding that has been identified and for the growth side of things, parks and recreation services are the only service that’s capped actually for what you can collect. So we actually do have a number of unfunded needs. We’re looking at a strategy on how to address that with this as well and actually trying to document and better reflect some of those gap matters that you’re identifying, Councillor, ‘cause I think that’s a good outcome coming forward for the community.

Thank you, Councillor. Okay, looking into committee further questions, comments? Online, let’s call the question. So votes, yes.

Closing the vote, the motion carries five to zero. All right, that is it for items of direction. We have next deferred matters, additional business. I have been queued up by Councillor Palosa.

So I will look to you, Councillor. Thank you, ever so briefly, just as the last meeting of CAHPS before the next cycle and I just wanted to thank the chair who took over part way through the term and chaired and will be staying on and to Councillor McMaster, who’ll be replacing these vice-chairs. Just thank you for your service. Thank you, Councillor, I appreciate that.

All right, that leaves us with confidential items. That’s the last one. So this is a item for land acquisition solicitor, solicitor client privilege, commercial or financial information of the corporation with monetary value position plan procedure criteria or instruction for negotiation purposes. A matter pertaining to the proposed or pending acquisition of land by the municipality, including communications necessary for that purpose, advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege, commercial and financial information that belongs to the municipality and has monetary value or potential monetary value and a position plan procedure, criteria or instruction to be applied to any negotiations carried on or to be carried on by or on behalf of the municipality.

So I will look to committee to move into a camera, moved by Councillor McAllister, seconded by Councillor Palosa. I think we can do this. Okay, it’ll go up in your E-Scribe right now. That’s a vote, yes.

Using the vote, the motion carries five to zero. Okay, we just need a few minutes to lock up the doors. Okay, we are back in public session. I will look to Councillor Pribble to report out.

Thank you, Chair. And I would like to report that our committee was in confidential session point 6.1 on the agenda, land acquisition, solicitor client privilege, commercial or financial information of the corporation with monetary value position plan procedure criteria or instruction for negotiation purposes. And progress has been made in this item on the agenda. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. That leaves us to our last item. That’s adjournment looking for a motion to adjourn. Moved by Councillor McAllister, seconded by Councillor Pribble.

We’ll do this by hand. All in favor for adjournment. All those opposed, motion carries. Okay, we’re adjourned.

Thank you.