October 8, 2025, at 2:00 PM
Present:
D. Ferreira, H. McAlister, P. Cuddy, J. Pribil, S. Trosow, J. Morgan
Also Present:
Deputy S. Lewis, A. Hopkins, S. Hillier, S. Datars Bere, V. Arora, B. Baar, A. Barbon, I. Collins, C. Cooper, K. Dickins, D. Escobar, M. Feldberg, P. Ladouceur, S. Mathers, K. Murray, J. Paradis, M. Pease, T. Pollitt, A. Rammeloo, K. Scherr, E. Skalski, C. Smith, J. Bunn
Remote Attendance:
S. Stevenson, C. Rahman, S. Franke, E. Peloza, S. Corman, A. Pfeffer
The meeting was called to order at 2:01 PM.
1. Disclosures of Pecuniary Interest
That it BE NOTED that no pecuniary interests were disclosed.
2. Consent
None.
3. Scheduled Items
None.
4. Items for Direction
4.1 Micro-Modular Shelter Site
2025-10-08 SR Micro-Modular Shelter Site - Cover
Moved by Mayor J. Morgan
Seconded by H. McAlister
That, on the recommendation of the City Manager, the following actions be taken with respect to the staff report dated October 8, 2025 related to a Micro-Modular Shelter Site:
a) the Micro-Modular Shelter Site implementation plan as described in this report BE ENDORSED;
b) the Civic Administration BE AUTHORIZED to finalize 1710 Wilton Grove Road as the location for an up to 2-year temporary Micro-Modular Shelter Site subject to obtaining required permits and approvals;
c) the Civic Administration BE AUTHORIZED to undertake procurement for all structures and services required to implement the Micro-Modular Shelter Site;
d) funding for the costs of the Micro-Modular Shelter Site through April 2027 BE APPROVED from the Operating Budget Contingency Reserve;
e) the Civic Administration BE AUTHORIZED to undertake all the administrative acts that are necessary in connection with this project;
f) the approvals given, herein, BE CONDITIONAL upon the Corporation entering into all necessary agreements and contracts noting that Civic Administration will report back to Council on the outcome of the negotiated agreements and formal contract awards;
g) the Mayor and the City Clerk BE AUTHORIZED to execute any contract or other documents, if required, to give effect to these recommendations; and,
h) the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to report back to Council upon the start of operation of the Micro-Modular Shelter Site and to provide an update after one year of operation of the site.
Additional Votes:
Moved by Mayor J. Morgan
Seconded by H. McAlister
That part b) of the motion BE APPROVED.
Vote:
Yeas: Nays: Mayor J. Morgan S. Trosow H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 1)
Moved by Mayor J. Morgan
Seconded by H. McAlister
That the remainder of the motion BE APPROVED.
Vote:
Yeas: Mayor J. Morgan H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (6 to 0)
5. Deferred Matters/Additional Business
None.
6. Adjournment
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by P. Cuddy
That the meeting BE ADJOURNED.
Motion Passed
The meeting adjourned at 3:46 PM.
Full Transcript
Transcript provided by Lillian Skinner’s London Council Archive. Note: This is an automated speech-to-text transcript and may contain errors. Speaker names are not identified.
View full transcript (2 hours, 7 minutes)
[15:43] Okay, everybody. I would ask you to be seated. I’m going to start this meeting in one minute. Everybody got seated and quiet a little bit quicker. So I’ll start it now. So I’m going to be opening the special meeting, the 15 special meeting of the community and protective services committee. Please check the city website for additional meeting detail information.
[22:25] The city of London is situated on the traditional lands of the Anishnabek, Haudenosaunee, Lina Peiwak, and Adwondering. We honor and respect the history, languages, and culture of the diverse indigenous people who call this territory home. The city of London is currently home to many First Nations, Métis, and Inuit today. As representatives of the people of the city of London, we are grateful to have the opportunity to work and live in this territory. The city of London is committed to making every effort to provide alternate formats and communication supports for meetings upon request to make us request specific to this meeting. Please contact cpsc@london.ca or call 519-661-2489 extension-2425. I’d like to recognize staff and chambers sitting before us. Thank you, and everybody in the gallery. Thank you for joining us.
[23:21] I will recognize members of this committee who are here right now. I have Ward 1 Councillor Hadley McAllister to my right, Ward 6 Councillor Sam Troso to my right, Ward 5 Councillor Jerry Perbal to my right, Ward 3 Councillor Peter Cutty to my right, and the entire committee and myself. Visiting members, we have the Deputy Mayor in chambers to my right, Deputy Mayor Sean Lewis. We have Councillor Anna Hopkins, Ward 9 to my left. Mayor Morgan is here as well to my left, and Councillor Steve Hill here, Ward 14 is to my left in chambers. On line, we have Councillor Susan Stevenson, Councillor Corinne ramen, and Councillor Skylar Frank. So I will start with just looking for any disclosures of pecuniary interest. None. Online. Okay, so there are no consent items. There are no schedule items.
[24:23] And we have one item for direction. That’s the micro modular shelter site. Before we put anything on the floor, I have discussion. Staff do have a presentation. So I am going to look for staff to get that ready. You have five minutes. So let me know when you’re ready. I’ll just give you a second and let me know when you’re ready. Hi, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to just start by suggesting to you that we have very much appreciated the support of an enterprise. Oh my goodness, enterprise wide support for this proposal coming forward. You’ll see by the number of staff who sit in this room today that every service area across the corporation has been involved in this work. We want to thank Council and the Mayor for the support in us doing this and acknowledge the Mayor’s direction to staff to do this. So I do want to thank the staff for the work that’s been done, the communications and the engagement of many, many individuals in this work.
[25:31] And want to be able to acknowledge that this work was done within the timeframes that we intended to do it and with the request of the Mayor under his direction. And I’ll pass it over to Ashley for an update. Thank you, Ms. Dater’s Bear. Just give me a thumbs up when you’re ready to go. Okay, Mr. Amaloo, go ahead. You have five minutes. All right. Thank you. I will fly through this. We wanted to give a high level overview of what is in the report, a little bit of a coals note. So really highlight those important points. So, thank you for joining us at this special meeting. Thank you for everybody for coming together. We are pleased to present the plan to put into effect the mayoral direction that we received in September to establish a temporary as 60 unit micro modular site with the direction being to minimize the impact on surrounding residential and commercial properties.
[26:23] And to bring the plan before council as soon as possible to allow for implementation by December 31. So that is what we are doing here today. So staff quickly met to determine the site selection criteria necessary to meet the stated timeline of implementing by December 31. So we quickly established that lands would need to be already city owned as the sites currently available on the open market are not suitable. And the time to lease or purchase land would put us beyond our timeline. So sites with existing city operations were also not considered with that in mind, we then screened those city owned parcels using the criteria you see on the screen. So larger than 1.5 acres.
[27:10] To accommodate all the buildings needed at least 400 meters from schools and registered day cares less than 100 meters from water and sewer services so that we could serve this this quickly. Not located within hazard lands outside of archaeological study areas because again doing that study work would put us beyond that deadline. Minimizing impacting on commercial and residential areas as stated in the direction, not in an existing park or sports field and not on shovel ready development plans. So easy, right? So that brings us so very quickly to our recommended location at 1710 Wilton Grove Road and more specifically the northern portion of the site noting that my red circle is not intended to be to scale.
[27:59] That is just to show you what part of the site we would be on. So this end of the site has water sewer and hydro available. There is no archaeological further environmental or upper Thames permits required for the area plan for use. There is you’ll notice a drain that goes through the land. There’s a buffer on that, but our use would be outside of that. This site is slated for future industrial development, so it does have an end date on it. So this would truly be a temporary site. It is near some industrial uses, but it is not near residential or commercial.
[28:37] The land is currently under agricultural contract. So there would be a notice required to the individual farming it for the portion of the site that we would be using for the municipal use. We are also in close proximity to the 401 corridor, so there is a set of permissions required from the MTO, but we have had initial discussions with them and we believe that their requirements are achievable, such as site fencing and so on. And given that this is currently being farmed, there is some site preparation required. We have had initial conversations with our operations staff in terms of the timelines and the budget to do that work and we believe it’s achievable.
[29:18] So what is required on that site? So what we’re looking at doing is 60 individual shelters, those micromodular units, washrooms, showers, indoor and outdoor common spaces, staff office space, as well as parking and storage, looking at having the site fully fenced, security lighting, emergency access routes, and then of course, considering winter maintenance access, including snow storage, as we complete the site plan. The shelters themselves will be under 10 square meters and not requiring a foundation.
[29:59] This is so that we can get them in by December 31st by not requiring additional site works and building permits. The shelters must be highly durable. They must be accessible. Have heat and air conditioning be building and fire code compliant and they’ll be able to house couples and pets. Other buildings on site, as we said, will have the showers, washrooms, et cetera. Those will are anticipated betrayers in order to meet our short timelines for this temporary site. Further on in the report, we also detailed the site operator requirements. So we will be looking at an operator that has demonstrated ability and experienced working with individuals experiencing homelessness, incident management and crisis management, a demonstrated history of strong financial management, and appropriate staffing levels to ensure adequate levels of support at the site.
[30:56] Also considered, as we were going through this, 24-hour security, laundry service, whether on-site or a service provider, food service, given that the site is a little bit more remote, we have factored in transportation into the operation of the site, garbage collection, storage for personal belongings, and indoor and outdoor common spaces again. So really including this to look at the breadth of the services and the staff that came together to really look at what will this site look like, what needs to operate on the site to make this successful for the individual’s house there. So our next step should this be approved by council?
[31:34] We would move quickly into our field work, so that surveys, order locates, finalize the site plan, including the servicing design so that our operations staff can start implementing it. We would be getting the required permits, including the MTO and a building permit from our own department for the water and sewer connection, which we have already established is achievable. We’d be ordering the shelter buildings quickly, hiring the site operator, and securing our other service providers for example, security, witness, maintenance, and so on. And the procurements of those items are laid out in the report. And with that, I think I’m under five minutes and we can move into your questions and discussion.
[32:16] Thank you, Ms. Ramlan. Just before we move on, Council Palosa has joined us online. And I will go to the mayor as there is a mayor direction on this, so I’ll hand it over to Mayor Morgan. Yes, no problem. So I’ll say two quick things. One, I want to thank staff for fulfilling the obligations of the mayoral direction. And as I’ve communicated, my intent here was to put something before council for council decision making, which we now have the ability to do under a timeframe that would allow us to get shelters up by the end of the year. So I want to thank staff for the good work that they’ve done in actually pulling together a relatively complex set of criteria, getting something before us. And now it’s kind of over to us to decide whether we’ll move forward this.
[33:01] At the appropriate time, Chair, I’m happy to move it, but I realize that you’re running the meeting. So I don’t know if you’re doing a question and answer first, but at the time, I’m happy to move it and then speak to it. Thank you, Mayor. Procedurally, I would like a motion on the floor before we go to question and answer a period. All right, I’m happy to move it. Looking for a seconder, seconded by Councilor McAllister. Okay, we have a motion on the floor. Looking for a speaker’s list, I’m going to go to a committee or members of committee first, and then I’ll go to visiting members after. So anybody put your hand up for anybody who wants to make comments or questions. All right, I have Councilor Trusso, please go ahead. I’m not ready to speak yet, but I would, well, I could speak, but I would like to hear from the ward councilor before, and I know that that is not within our rules, but this committee could ask the hear from him first, and I would be happy to do that. I would move that we allow the ward councilor to speak if he’d like.
[33:59] I will look to members for consensus on that. If I have anyone who is not in agreement with that, but your hand up. If not, I will go to Councilor Hillier. I’m getting nods. Okay, Councilor, please go ahead. Thank you very much. And through you to staff, first question, what are the locations we’re considered for this? Thank you, Councilor. I will go to Mr. Felberg. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and through you. So we took, as you can see through the criteria that was in the presentation, we took a broad look around the city. That criteria that we use, where we looked at all the public and private sites, we looked at all the city-owned land that we have. We looked at the size of the sites at over one and a half acres.
[34:48] We also looked to ensure that the sites were not located in a BIA or downtown, or even in the OEB. We also looked at sites like E-Rock and the Wozley-Barrick’s to ensure that we weren’t impacting any of the services and staff that were on those particular sites. And then we looked at some of those shovel ready lands that we have for industrial and for affordable housing as well. So we looked all over the city. What we found was that there really isn’t a great site anywhere in particular in the city. So what we wanted to do was limit the risk that we had for us to be able to deliver on the time frame that the Mayor put forward for us, and additionally ensuring that we weren’t impacting any residential or commercial properties in direct, in close proximity to that site.
[35:39] So that’s how we ended up with this particular site that you see before you today. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. Through you again. Was there a second place location, or is this the only one that was chosen through all of it? Thank you. I will go to. Mr. Amalou? Okay, go ahead. Thank you. Through the chair. Yes, there were other sites that came in closer. However, they were much closer to residential areas, and so they were ruled out for that reason. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. Just letting everyone know, I have heard from pretty much all the residents in the area and all the businesses in the area, and they’re greatly concerned about the very short notice they’ve received on this.
[36:23] So I am asking, hoping someone on committee would be willing to put forth a referral to bring this one more cycle, just so conversations can be had with them, because we’ve only received two and a half days. And I think they require a lot more notice on that. If someone would be willing to put that forth, I’d be very appreciative. Thank you, Councillor. I will look to other members of committee first. If anybody would like to speak, I do have Councillor Frank online. She’s a visiting member, so I’m just going to put her on hold before I exhaust members of committee. Go ahead, Councillor McAlister. Okay, thank you and through the chair.
[37:01] I just have a few questions. I mean, obviously, early days, I do appreciate in terms of the turnaround time. I really appreciate all the efforts staff from the number of departments put in, and also thanks to the mayor for putting this forward. And really thanks to all the Councillors who have, you know, we’ve had these discussions before. This is not necessarily a new thing. There are a number of cities who have tried this. So, I mean, whenever I’ve met colleagues from other municipalities, you know, this is something that is not unique to London. We’re all dealing with it. And so there’s a number of these that are operating currently, so I think we should try this.
[37:39] But I do have a few questions, and I know staff probably won’t have all the answers necessarily again, because we’ve just got this. But I am wondering in terms of the site itself, and obviously we, in the report, it talks about, you know, the utilities and getting those set up. How long do we anticipate that would take? Just recognizing getting power, you know, water, all of those things. Are we confident in terms of the timeline to get those open running? Thank you, Councillor. I’ll go to Ms. Ramalu. Go ahead. Thank you. Through the chair, part of the reason we are having the special CAHPS meeting is so that we do have that additional time a few weeks. We’ll make a big difference in this. We do feel that using city operations staff, we will be able to get the site prepped, the water and sewer service in and so on.
[38:26] It is a tight timeline. We are already implementing this faster than other municipalities have, but we think we can do it as soon as long as we keep moving forward. All right. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you, and through you. Another question in terms of, obviously, in the report, it’s identified the procurement. And obviously we’re using, I think it’s canoe, or I’m trying to remember the exact term for the procurement software we’re using with pre-approved providers. And I’m just wondering, is that something that would come back to Council, or is that something that staff at their discretion would choose a provider and then we would move forward? Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Ms. Barbone. Go ahead.
[39:09] Thank you. Through the chair, Mr. Collins and Ms. Aurora can add if I miss anything. So under the current procurement policy, there is the provision for these services that we are able to go ahead and procure subject to the approval of the recommendations that are there. Staff would have all the authority to be able to proceed with the procurement in accordance with the existing procurement policy. The services that are exempt, but we are looking to leverage our use of the cooperative provisions that are there. So we have, based on the policy able to go out, we’ve already connected with them.
[39:50] We know what the timelines would be to be able to proceed. So certainly 60 days is the minimum that we would require when we’re able to go forward. So based on the approval that is there currently as it’s written, it would give us the authority to go out and under the provisions be able to proceed to procure not only the services that are required to be able to get the land ready and have the providers in place, but also for the units themselves. Thank you. And I did hear Ms. Barbone say if anybody else from staff wanted to add to that, I’ll give you your chance now. We’re good. Okay, I’ll go back to Councillor. Go ahead. Thank you and through you also just wondering in terms of site management, what that would look like.
[40:36] Obviously, again, in the report, identifying that we would be looking for an operator, but I’m just wondering in terms of staff involvement, what that would look like. Would we have staff on site and in terms of the security provider would be looking to use city security or would we be looking for an outside contractor? Thank you, Councillor. Mr. Cooper. Thank you and through you, Mr. Chair, we looked at a number of other municipalities and how they were operating their similar services. And we were looking at obviously providing as much 24/7 oversight of the site as possible, whether that’s a mix of operator and security. We do intend to also have other support agencies on site as necessary to help support the individuals who will end up on this location if approved.
[41:27] But realistically, it’s ensuring that it’s a 24/7 site and that it is staffed at the right level to ensure that those who are on site are supported appropriately. Thank you, Mr. Cooper. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through the chair, so obviously we’re still moving ahead with this on what model would be best when it comes to the operationalization of the shelter. Certainly, it could be a combination of some security staff or it could be security provided through the operator.
[42:09] At the end of the day, obviously our coordinated informed response team would also be involved in that and providing the supports at that location as well. Thank you. Go ahead. Thank you. Through the chair. And I’m wondering if staff could also speak to you in terms of transportation to and from site. Is that something we’d be using like LTC or would this be a private service that we would, again, contract out? Thank you, Councillor, Mr. Cooper. Thank you, and through you, Mr. Chair, we’re basing the proposed transportation on existing experience with the Fanshawe site. So at that location, the provider was able to provide a van and then work with the individuals to make appointments to get into a community where they had services that were necessary and it supported that population quite well.
[42:58] So our initial consideration is to replicate that model, but it really depends on the provider that we end up working with. Thank you. Go ahead. Thank you, and through you, trying to be as efficient with my questions as I can. So I’m not trying to rapid fire, but I have another questions, obviously. And then also with that, I’m just wondering in terms of services that would be provided on site, recognizing we would still have to be able to transport people to and from appointments, you know, get them where they need to go. But just also recognizing what kind of services do we envision being on site? Thank you. I will go to Mr. Dickens. Go ahead.
[43:35] Thank you, through you, Chair. While this is an implementation plan, the day-to-day operations is not clearly articulated in this report, given that it still needs to be landed. And I appreciate Council understands that reality of trying to bring this report back as fast as possible and then build this plane as we fly it. What’s going to be important is that services are coming to this site. And I think through experience of other municipalities, through experience of our local providers who are experts in this work, we can learn a lot from those organizations and ask for their assistance in designing some of this service delivery model. We want to make sure that we offer a variety of services in the space where people are going to be building community. And ultimately, that’s what we’re trying to establish is a sense of stabilization.
[44:25] And for folks to start to build community, build trust, and then start to work with them on their path to their next steps. It stands to reason, with a hard hub coming online in our community, that there may be people who are looking to get into recovery and may be looking for space on site that offers them some abstinence choices, which is going to be something that the team will have to consider as we do site plan design. As we look at the layout of where these micromodular shelters will go on this location and what segregation looks like and what safety design and septed looks like and all of those things. As far as additional services, we know that as people begin to stabilize, ultimately, we want them to advance on their housing journey into more permanent housing.
[45:11] So that may be housing with supports or supportive housing, which means that we would want to make sure we have housing services on site. That may be through some of our city staff. It might be through some of our community organizations that are working with these individuals present day, but we’ll be able to perhaps more effectively work with them when they have a roof over their head. We would also consider income supports and social assistance supports be available on site in these locations. Ultimately, as people begin to prepare for their journey into housing, it would be be fitting for those that are able to to start discussing other opportunities, such as employment. And what does that look like for people to begin that journey and to start to wrap around those services. So everything from meeting your urgent medical needs, if you’re medically fragile, senior, for example, currently living unsheltered on our streets.
[46:03] What can we do to make sure that your medical and health needs are met now that you have a roof over your head all the way through to how can we support you in your next housing journey. So there will be a wide variety of services that come on site. They may not all be there 24/7 because that would not be required, but we want to make sure we can meet people’s individual needs as the best we can. Thank you. Go ahead, Councilor. Thank you. And appreciate all the answers. I’ll just wrap up with a few comments. Again, I want to thank everyone who was involved with this. I do think this is something that we should try and I’m going to be supportive of it.
[46:38] In our discussions previously on modular, my issue has always been speed. I know we’ve set this number of meetings. We all need more types of housing built. This is one type, but when it comes down to it, we need these things built fast. And I really do think in terms of modular, this is something that we have to try. As you know, staff have said, you know, we don’t have all the answers necessary right now, but this is something that I think we need to invest in. Give it a shot. See where we can go from this. And, you know, it won’t necessarily be perfect. I mean, even in terms of what we just said with the site location, there is no perfect site for this, but we have got to try everything we can.
[47:17] And I think this is something we absolutely need to get online. Appreciating to winters on its way. I really do appreciate again all the work that went into the three tiered response. But this is another thing that we can bring online to give people some shelter through the winter. So thank you for everyone involved and thank you to the mayor. And I look forward to everyone’s thoughts on this. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. Okay. I have a small speakers list, both are visiting members. So before I go to them, I am going to make one last call to members of the committee. And you can speak after visiting members as well. Okay, Councillor Trussell, you have. I’m going to reserve my comments until a little bit later. I’ll try to not talk too much.
[48:01] So first question, going back to the question that Councillor Hill raised. What were the other alternative sites that we decided not to use? Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Mr. Felberg. Go ahead. Thank you and through you, Mr. Chair. So we looked at all city owned properties across the city. And what we found was that this one offered the best opportunity for us to bring forward this 16 micro unit shelter in the fastest way possible, which was the core of the mayoral direction. Thank you. Thank you. And those are your conclusions and I respect your conclusions. My question is what were the other sites that were not selected. Thank you, Councillor.
[48:48] Staff, I’ll go to you. If you can’t answer that, please do so. If you cannot, I will accept that as well. Go ahead, Mr. Felberg. Mr. Chair, I really can’t add any further to that. We looked at all city owned sites across the city. Okay. Thank you, Councillor. Well, I will make the comment that I’m very disappointed through the chair that we were not given options that we were told this is the one. And I’m troubled by that. I would like as a council committee to be able to look at some alternatives and not just be given one. And I’m not clear. Maybe we need to go into closed session if this is a confidential issue.
[49:33] Or if there’s a legal issue, I’m not satisfied with the response. And I’d like to press it again. And if I’m just not going to get that information, that is going to affect my vote on this and my vote on subsequent motions. Is there a confidentiality or real estate issue that would preclude us from getting this information? Thank you, Councillor. Just a second. Let me confer with the clerks. And I see the city manager looking at me. Okay. I’m going to go right to you. Go ahead. Thank you. Through you, Mr. Chair, we were very clear that in moving forward on this report, we’re taking exactly the mayoral direction we received.
[50:15] The mayoral direction we received is as presented in the report, and it did not require us to demonstrate a number of different options for the committee’s consideration. Having been having said that, I will again confirm that we looked at every available city owned site across the city. And so want to be clear about that again. Thank you. Councillor, I’ll go back to you just with note that it seems like we have exhausted the answers on that. But go ahead. My next question is, have we considered splitting this into 30 units and 30 units, which would change the calculus for how large the land has to be?
[51:00] Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Mr. Abilu. Thank you. Through the chair, no, we looked at a site for 60 units because that was the mayoral direction. Thank you, Councillor. Well, I think that if we want 60 units, we should be able to look at the possibility of instead of clustering it, spreading it out a little bit. Because if we have 30 units, am I correct in saying that if we have a 30 unit site, we would need less acreage? Thank you, Councillor, Mr. Abilu. Thank you. Through the chair, although, yes, you would need less acreage at the single site. You would now have a duplication of site and a duplication of a number of the capital costs, such as fencing, lighting and so on, as well as having two operators at different sites.
[51:55] I don’t believe the economics would be there. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. I think to just dismiss the possibility of being able to use this option, which is a viable option. Without more to just say, I don’t believe this would be viable. I’m just not satisfied with that response. And I’d like a little bit more detail as to why we can’t split this into two units. Thank you, Councillor. Staff did mention that there were some financial restraints. If I don’t know if staff have extra information to that answer. So if you do, let me know. But I believe that would be the full extent to the answer. So I would stop the questioning there and you can move on to the next.
[52:40] Well, I’m very frustrated by my inability to ask what I think are very reasonable threshold questions here. And it doesn’t give me a lot of confidence in this project. Hey, I want to support this. I really want to support this. And I really want this to work. But I want to feel as the Councillor that this has been given to this committee, the strong mayor powers have been used to some degree. And the rest of it is being given to this committee. And I would say either use the strong mayor powers and do it or let this council make reasonable interim decisions. I am not going to feel comfortable moving ahead with this without a deferral unless some of these questions are answered, which puts me in a very uncomfortable position because I really want to do this.
[53:33] So I guess my next question. So my further questioning on this is out of order. It’s not out of order. I do hear staff giving responses to your questions. Okay, I’ll go to Mr. Felberg. I feel like staff might have a response. So Mr. Felberg, go ahead. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and through you. So one of the key components of the mayoral direction was that we should minimize the impact to residential and commercial properties. So when you’re looking within the built area boundary of the city where we have a significant number of our parcels, those parcels are in direct proximity across the street adjacent to residential and commercial properties.
[54:21] So for us to be able to identify a site elsewhere somewhere different than where we’ve identified would be very difficult for us to do. So that would be the summary of identifying the sites within the city. Thank you. Go ahead, Councilor. My next question is, is there a contingency plan that we would be able to put into operation separate and beyond what’s in the mayoral direction that would allow us to come up with 60 additional units by the end of the year should any of these contingencies, such as being able to find a provider or being able to procure the units themselves. Are you frustrated? Is there a backup plan? Thank you, Councilor. I will go to Mr. Dickens. Go ahead. Thank you, Chair. And through you, as the city manager indicated, this has been an enterprise wide approach and all resources available have been dedicated to bringing this report back in a very quick time frame. I would say this is the plan. The most recent CAHPS meeting, Ms. Smith and other colleagues presented a warming center plan, which was the production of close to 200 indoor spaces during extreme cold temperatures through the use of a community center as well as reliance on community partners. That reliance on community partners is not understated. It is a big ask. And when we look at this approach, this is net new to that.
[55:57] It is a net new initiative beyond the existing shelter system, the existing housing system and the existing hub system. And in addition to the warming center framework that has been presented and received at CAHPS. So this is the plan that we are focusing on as per the mayoral direction. Thank you, Mr. Dickens. Councillor, just let you know you just have just over a minute to go. Okay, so I’m going to just say I’ll take that as a no to my to my question. How will the tenant selection process work? Thank you, Councillor. Mr. Cooper. Thank you. And just for some clarity through you, Mr. Chair, this is a shelter. It’s not a residential housing development, just for some clarity there. Typically, what we would do is we’d work with our coordinate form response programs, our outreach teams and our coordinated access team. They all have significant interactions and relationships with a number of these folks who are experiencing and sheltered homelessness.
[56:54] And so part of the selection process would be that somebody wants to go to this location. We want to ensure that people are willing to go to these locations. We’re not going to force people to go to these locations, but it is a viable option for a number of individuals. And so we would start there and then work with our professionals and our community partners to ensure that we match people who would be successful in this location. Thank you, Mr. Cooper. I’m going to go to Mr. Dickens as well. Thank you, Chair. And just add to Mr. Cooper’s response and his note about folks being successful. One method we will be using around the participant selection is to ensure that there’s a mixed acuity in this space that we are not overwhelming the location or the provider with 60 or more individuals.
[57:45] Given the unit types that it will be a mixed acuity so that some folks can come in that are relatively self sufficient right now, but are living unsheltered or in a makeshift encampment and provide them the opportunity to roof over their head and to move through the system. Thank you, Council. I’ll yield for now. Thank you. You still have just over a minute to go. I have three people on my speakers list. Visiting members. So I’m going to go to Council Frank, then I have Deputy Mayor Lewis, then I have Councilor Stevenson. So Council Frank, go ahead. Thank you. Appreciate that. I’ve got a couple questions for the chair to staff. So one of them being, and it kind of follows on Councillor Chaucer’s question.
[58:29] In regards to the assessment of city own parcels, we got a report in July of 2025, just three months ago, where staff assessed over 300 parcels of land for the quick communities motion. I’m just wondering, because this was not one of those, it was not one of the locations I was identified in that report. It was not an option. So I’m just curious as to why at this point, the location that was selected on Wilton Grove is viable now, but in, we didn’t see it in the July 2025 report on quick communities. Thank you, Councillor, Mr. Felbert. Thank you. And through you, Mr. Chair, so the Wilton Grove property is currently planned for industrial development. Although that development is not planned for a few years as we work through the pre development studies, so it was not considered as part of the quick communities assessment.
[59:19] The use of the site as industrial is something that we are working towards right now, which is why this is a temporary site. So we have a two year time for in two to three year time frame for us, but it does have to align with the operating budget, which is closer to 16 months. Thank you, Mr. Felbert. Council, go ahead. Thank you. Yes. Yeah, I’m quite delighted because in the July report on quick communities, there, it was mentioned that there’s no viable locations in the city. So I’m delighted to see that there is a viable location. I have a couple questions. So if we’re using this location for two to three years, what happens to all of the capital infrastructure after two to three years. Thank you, Councillor Mr Amalou.
[1:00:02] Thank you through the chair. So the micro modular unit shelters themselves can be moved quite easily. There is one other municipality that actually moves them every year between locations. So they can actually be moved to the forklift. So our capital investment in those is maintained. Other aspects are likely to be rentals, at least for the temporary site. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you. And then the servicing that will be provided. Will that be up to standard of the industrial use in three years, or will that be only for servicing for these 60 sites and then it will be ripped out and then industrial servicing will be put in in three years. Thank you, Ms. Ramalou. Thank you. So the sanitary and water servicing that we will put in for this site was is really just a short service to between the mains that are at the road and the building on site. So it won’t be sized at that point for the industrial because mapping out their needs.
[1:01:00] Their needs will be quite different on site than ours. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you. And then to follow up on that. So do we have an estimated amount of how much we’d be spending to put in that servicing and then having to essentially throw it out when we do the industrial servicing. Thank you, Ms. Ramalou. Go ahead. Thank you through the chair. I don’t have a cost estimate on the water and sewer. We anticipate absorbing it was in our operational budget as it is a fairly short distance. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you. Much appreciated. And then following up. So do we need to rezone the land? I read through the report and mentioned like a temporary zone. I just was hoping someone could speak a little bit more to that. Thank you, Councillor. I’m going to go to Mr. Mathers. Go ahead. Through the chair. Sorry. We’re not recommending any kind of a temporary zone. We’re recommending just due to the nature that this is a temporary site and that and the urgency of this matter that we look at this as a public use and and then knowing that in the long term that this will be an industrial use moving forward. So we’ll just be considering this public use for the time being. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor.
[1:02:11] Thank you. Could I have staff explain that a little bit further? Are we allowed to not rezone a property and then use it for something? I assume this is zone agricultural or industrial maybe. Are we allowed to use it for zoning purpose? That’s not what it’s actually zoned us. Thank you. If staff is able to add to that, I will go to staff. Mr Mathers. Go ahead. Through the chair. Absolutely. So there is broad powers from municipalities to be able to allow for this if it’s for a municipal and a public use. So that is a recommendation for this site for that temporary period. In the long term, it is an industrial growth from a plan from a land use perspective, but it is, as you mentioned, agricultural use currently. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. Yes, interesting.
[1:03:01] And then the last question I have before I make a couple of comments is just what happens with the, I know you mentioned there’s a current existing agricultural contract. What happens in that, because I assume we have it with a farmer and then we’re breaking the contract. So what does that look like? Thank you, Councillor. I will go to member of staff I’m not familiar with. Please go ahead in the back. Thank you, Chair Brian Barr, Director of Realty Services. As it relates to the farm contract that’s currently in place, we’re anticipating if the site as put forward is utilized, the crops are anticipated to be removed prior to the end of October. And thereafter, we can serve notice to the tenant, which is allowed for the current agreement framework, and it would be a simple adjustment to their current agreement.
[1:03:58] Thank you, Mr. Barr. Go ahead, Councillor Frank. Thank you. That exhausts all of my questions. Yeah, I’m generally supportive of this idea, given the work that Council Purple and I already did on communities. So I appreciate that this is coming forward. I personally would like it to be at a location that is closer to transit services as this is a fair distance and does not have regular services, but I understand the dire nature we’re in. I think that we need to have a diversity of options for folks. So I’m interested to see how this rolls out and how the folks who are using the homes, how they experience it. So I’m hoping the staff will be, you know, doing some sort of evaluation survey at the end of the process to see if the people who are living there. I appreciate the location, but I will probably be firing this at Council and appreciate the work being done on it. Thank you, Councillor. Okay, just going through the speakers list before I go to the deputy mayor who’s next on the list.
[1:04:59] I got Deputy Mayor Lewis, Councillor Stevenson, Councillor Hopkins, and then the Mayor Morgan is next on the speakers list or the last on the speakers list. So Deputy Mayor, you got five minutes. Go ahead. Thank you, Chair. Thanks for acknowledging me and to staff. I know this has been an incredible amount of work in a short period of time. So thank you for pulling this together as fast as you did. I don’t have a lot of questions for you. I know that there’s still things to be sorted out with operators with logistics. Once we give you the green light to go ahead and implement. I will save those for when we are moving into that stage. I know that we have some local social service agency representatives in the gallery. I know I’ve seen some of your comments about that in the media.
[1:05:43] I appreciate your support for this plan. I know Ms. Lazenby and the union project have some experience with these sort of micro level units and I hope that they’ll share that expertise with us as we move forward on this. This is the plan. If we want these units to shelter people this winter, we do not have time for deferrals. We do not have time to consider split sites and alternate locations and pitting neighborhoods against neighborhoods. I did the mapping on this as the crow flies, assuming that there’s a residential component to the country pause dog grooming as the crow flies it’s half a kilometer. If you actually take the roadways to walk in, you’re getting very close to a kilometer from any potential residential use. That is as far away from residential use as you’re going to get. And we have seen with the hub discussions with the other discussions around 602 Queens with the discussions around arcades service at 696 Dundas.
[1:06:55] That proximity to residential uses is going to be a problem. This is the only property the staff have come up with that has this kind of distance from residential use, this sort of minimal impact. So if we want the community to support this as a whole, we need to listen and we need to hear the concerns that they’ve had about other locations, both perceived and legitimate. And we need to look at this and I’m going to share with you now because I was on council last term. So I went with Councillor Layman to the Fanshawe golf course when we had the trailers out there. So for those concerned about the remoteness, I’m going to tell you something that stuck with me from one woman who stayed in one of those trailers.
[1:07:42] Councillor Layman and I sat out there for almost three hours. We had coffee, we took timbits, we chatted with the folks who were staying there. And this has always stayed with me. This woman was probably in her late 30s to early 40s, but I do have enough diplomacy to not ask a woman or age. I know that that never goes over well. But she said to us, this is the best option the city could have ever given me because I’m not downtown. My dealer doesn’t know where to find me and my pimp doesn’t know where to find me. If you think centralized services are great, feel free to propose a location in your ward. But the people who go out here are going to have the opportunity to break a cycle and to hopefully get themselves stabilized and move into the next stage of housing.
[1:08:33] So this is a difficult decision because it’s also a lot of money, and it’s only two years. But we, if we want to do something now, if we want to house people for this winter, then staff did the best possible thing they could by bringing forward this option for us. We’re not putting neighborhood against neighborhood. We have some factory uses there. But we can work with those industrial users to make sure that security systems are in place, that there’s adequate lighting. The fencing is there that will address concerns about the safety of workers’ vehicles and things like that in the parking lot. Still a pretty good walk, by the way, if you’re walking from this location to any of the actual industrial uses where you’re going to have employee parking. So this is the site, folks. We either endorse this, or we do nothing. And I’ve heard a lot of you say doing nothing’s not acceptable. And I know that people are out there on the streets right now. The alternate to this is that people continue to be sheltered in doorways and alleys and parking lots and neighborhood parks.
[1:09:42] So if we don’t want people in encampments, and this isn’t going to take everybody out of encampments, we know that. But if we want to get more people out of encampments, if we want to get more people out of doorways, then it’s this, or it’s the status quo. Thank you Deputy Mayor. All right. I have just added Councillor Palosa to the bottom of the list. I was told that you have your hand up. Next on the list is Councillor Stevenson. Please go ahead. You have five minutes. Thank you. Just generally speaking, I was wondering, we haven’t heard from the whole of communities at all around this. Other cities have had these exact same shelter type arrangements for two years, and there’s been nothing from them. So why all of a sudden now is this coming from the mayor and has the whole of community discussed this? I’d like to know. Thank you, Councillor.
[1:10:40] I will give this question to who is able to answer. And if it’s a mayor question, you can let me know, Mr Dickens. Through you chair, this is direction from the mayor to civic administration, and that is why we’re doing this work. We have engaged community partners across the whole of community that are working on that plan as well, and this is in addition to that. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. It’s just that this feels like a sharp right turn off the bridge that we were building as we walked across it.
[1:11:22] And like I said, other municipalities did this two years ago. Our homeless situation is the same crisis that we’ve been dealing with, and we still don’t have the money. So, you know, a couple of winters ago when we were presented with three options for the winter and told we only had funding for two, I moved to motion that we fund all three, even though we didn’t know where the money was coming from. And that was not looked upon too well. And yet now we continue to do things, even though we don’t have the money. So, I was wondering why in the motion, it doesn’t say $7 million from the budget operating contingency fund. Usually there’s a piece to there. Thank you, Councillor.
[1:12:09] I’ll take that as a question. Thank you through the chair. So the reason the funding isn’t specifically here is because we’ve identified where that would be coming from in that authorization to identify that funding from the contingency went through the resolution related to the operating budget surplus report that was presented to the ICSE committee earlier this week. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. And not to get into the weeds on this, but I thought the answer yesterday was that the treasurer replenished the operating budget contingency fund anticipating that these withdrawals came out of it.
[1:12:55] So, should there not be a council approval for the where this money is coming from for this particular fund? Thank you, Councillor, Ms. Garbo, and go ahead. Thank you. Part D of the resolution identifies that the funding would come from the operating budget contingency reserve fund. So, the replenishment that is funding this as well as the other soon to be approved through council for the winter response. In totality, I am replenishing those funds, but the direction to approve the funding through the operating budget contingency reserve fund is part of D through this motion that council will approve. Thank you, Councillor.
[1:13:40] Thank you for that. I just missed it indeed, but it doesn’t say 7 million. So what happens if it’s eight or 8.5? Thank you, Councillor. I’ll go back to Ms. Garbo and go ahead. Thank you to the chair. So that would be part of this determination. So right now, we are estimating what that is going to be. Obviously, if the costs are slightly different, then we would have to determine what that is. But certainly based on the way the resolution reads, if the direction is for civic administration to proceed in implementation of this, that funding approval without an amount would allow us to be able to proceed based on the total cost through the report. Obviously, we would be reporting back and would be able to disclose what those are, but this approval would allow us to proceed should council wish us to do so. Thank you, Councillor.
[1:14:36] Thank you. And just to understand that, you know, we just watched Hamilton go 5.1 million over before council was told. So I’m just just being cautious on behalf of taxpayers to make sure that we’ve got a cap on this before we end up going over. I also wondered in the site development, will there be a concrete need to be poured or pathways laid out? Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Ms. Ramaloo. Go ahead. So I believe the question was if there would be concrete pads. So in short, no, our plan at this point is for a basically a gravel surf parking lot type treatment. The shelters have been sourced such that they do not require a concrete pad for the sake of expediency. Thank you, Councillor.
[1:15:23] Okay, thank you. Did we explore getting the capital cost from the London Community Foundation from the change for fund or the fund for change? Thank you. I will go to Mr Dickens. Go ahead. Through your chair. No, we did not. That was not within the scope of the fund for change or the anonymous donor family. Thank you, Councillor. Okay, thank you. Have we explored reallocating some funding from other homeless contracts after March 31, given that maybe I know from residents that I speak to, maybe some less than effective outcomes coming from some of our outreach, maybe project home.
[1:16:19] Is there thought of maybe doing some reallocation so that we’re not taking it directly from the reserve fund? Thank you, Councillor. I’ll go to Ms. Stater’s Bear. Thank you through you. The intention is to create new spaces for new supports for individuals in this community who require support. We do not look at re-profiling or retaking dollars from other organizations at this time. We want to create more spaces for people who are disadvantaged and marginalized right now. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. Yes, it’s just that we heard that, you know, the outreach, they were not, they didn’t have services to offer people. And so potentially if we could reallocate some of that money to actually providing services that would help, it might be good. The same as in the multi-year shelter contracts, we had money, for example, Unity Project, we were allocating money for fundraising that was expected to be a struggle. And the YOU hub, we have the cost of the beds at around $11,000 a month.
[1:17:17] Given that things haven’t happened the way that we anticipated and funding were being told in the operating monitoring, the budget monitoring report that there’s shortfalls coming forward, is there thoughts to asking the agencies if there’s ways to find efficiencies similar to what we did with the boards and commissions so that we can provide more services for people? Stairs, bear. Thank you for, through you, Chair. I think the question refers to other types of services that Councillors asking you about how we are dealing with other contracts. I’m happy to respond to questions that relate to this report that’s in front of you. But at this point in time, the request is for Council’s consideration for this with funding as identified.
[1:18:04] Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you. But again, this has come to us for our determination. And if there’s ways that we can find to reallocate funding so that we have, we’re not using municipal property taxes. That’s the issue for me. We should be using provincial funding for this, not municipal tax dollars. Another question is, again, I heard service agencies saying that they’ve got 50, they see 50 to 60 new people falling into homelessness each month. Staff had reported that we were looking at a 5% increase per year in the number of homelessness.
[1:18:45] I’m wondering, if we go ahead with the 60 shelters, are we going to see a noticeable difference in our core area? Thank you, Councillor. I’ll go to Mr Dickens. Through you, Chair, that is our hope is that you’ll see some difference. Absolutely. We’ll see a difference in the lives of the people who are fortunate enough to make their way in here. As we talked about a mixed acuity, it’s within the realm of possibility that while folks move in, they may not stay here for the duration of the two years. And they may successfully through different lengths of stay journey on to other more permanent forms of housing, which then creates a bit of a turnover in the space to accommodate more individuals.
[1:19:34] So while we set to open up 60 units, we anticipate over the course of the two year period that will serve more than that, which will help. I will caution all of Council, though, that other municipalities as is well documented through Peterborough, Kingston, Hamilton, Waterloo, Niagara, and the list goes on. But it doesn’t necessarily equate to, oh, I see 60 less people in the streets. Yes, this is a pervasive problem. More and more people across Canada are experiencing homelessness at an alarming rate that’s been all documented.
[1:20:13] But we feel that the direction provided by the mayor is to take immediate action to assist in this magnitude, which will have a meaningful impact in the lives of those that are currently living on shelter. Thank you, Councillor, you have about 30 seconds left. Go ahead. Well, I will just say we, you know, of course, we all care about people who are unhoused, especially over the winter. But the mayoral direction says that it’s an urgent threat to public health and safety, including the wider community. And again, when we have no money and we’re just pressures on financial resources, we need to make sure that we’ve got the resources to address the urgent threat to public health and safety for the wider community.
[1:20:56] And I’m very concerned about that in the area of Old East Village and in the core area. One last quick question is we had trailers, we had 60 trailers for your five minutes is up. Okay, well, just I’d just like to know why we sold them and I’m going to allow this last question because you’re just six seconds over. Go ahead, Mr Cooper. Thank you. It wasn’t 60 trailers. I think it was about 60 spaces within, I think, four, maybe five, maybe six trailers.
[1:21:31] Those trailers at the time had, you know, exhausted their useful life within the purpose that we had originally purchased them for. So they were sold for a different purpose to through our, I believe our real tea services or our purchasing team here at the city. Thank you, Mr Cooper. Okay. Next on the list, I got Council Hopkins, Mayor Morgan, Council Palosa. Go ahead. Council Hopkins, you have five minutes. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair, for recognizing me and as a visiting Councillor. A lot of my questions have been answered.
[1:22:05] I do have one left and I understand these, the shelters are temporary. We only have them for two years and I know we need to put people in places like giving them opportunities for permanent housing and housing with support. So through you, just wondering what that plan still looks like and how we’re going forward with that plan as we deal with this with these shelters. Thank you, Councillor.
[1:22:40] I will go to Mr Cooper. Sorry. Apologies for you, Mr. Chair. Could I have the question repeated? I am sorry. I had something else coming up on my computer. No worries, so as we have this site that’s temporary for two years, we also know we need to place people in permanent housing or housing with support. So I’d like to have a better understanding how that new stock that that plan itself is going forward as we undertake this project.
[1:23:25] Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that for repeating the question and apologies for missing that. Yeah, I think as Mr. Dickens mentioned earlier, the housing journey for everyone is a bit different, right? And everybody has different life goals and are moving through this journey at different places. And so the supports that individuals need definitely vary through a number of the work that the whole of community response is doing with the highly supportive housing. We’re creating new units that are coming on in the next number of years that obviously these folks, if eligible and if appropriate, would be looked to be matched to those units. Should they want to live in those areas?
[1:24:07] We’re also working with other providers, nonprofit housing providers. There’s the end of operating agreement and social housing retrofits that, again, are providing more opportunities for individuals to live. And so supporting these individuals in the moment to get to that point, if you will, that they’re able to really focus on their future is this is part of that. We do that work in shelters. We do that work on out in the streets without reach, but we do find better outcomes for individuals when they have that temporary roof over their head. Thank you. Go ahead, Councilor. Good to know that work is still going on and the importance of putting these people into housing eventually is the game here.
[1:24:57] I just want to make a couple comments. I’ve never been a big fan of strong air powers. I think these powers can be used in many ways, but I think the powers that Almer has brought forward with the micromodular shelter sites is good. It’s needed in our community. And I think we could all agree the importance of getting these shelters up and going before the winter starts is important in our city. I see this as an added to our poll of community response and also with the warming centers that we’ve just added to it’s all these things coming together that is creating a better life, I think, for a vulnerable population.
[1:25:52] And it’s important that we take advantage of everything and anything and especially under these constraints. So now’s the time to do it. And I’m really glad and pleased that I’m a part of that conversation. I want to thank the agencies. When you make comments, it’s important for me as a Councillor to hear what the agencies think of our plans. So thank you for that. I want to thank staff. Boy, you had tight tight framework there to make this happen. I know there weren’t a lot of options out there. I wish we probably would have more time to have these conversations and better opportunities.
[1:26:33] But I do understand that you were given the structure and you needed to respond to that. The other thing I want to say and Councillor Stevenson reminded me of the importance of the provincial government stepping in and helping municipalities. We have the problem here and we definitely need support from the province when it comes to funding. So I think that’s the advocacy that I will take forward. And I really want to thank everyone for hopefully we can all work together here and move forward. Thank you, Councillor. I have Mayor Morgan next. Go ahead. You have five minutes.
[1:27:18] Thanks. I appreciate the comments and the questions that my colleagues have asked so far. I’m going to address a couple of things here that I’ve heard today. First, a question about consulting the whole of community response colleagues have to remember that the whole of community response is focused on hubs and highly supportive housing. It’s very focused on a very marginalized and high needs group of individuals who are experiencing homelessness in our community. We’re talking about a shelter here. We’re talking about shelter space, sheltering people from cold in the winter. Heat through the summer for a couple of years, totally different, right? We’re doing a lot of things in the homeless space and we need to remember how to stay focused on the pieces we are and not try to mix everyone up by, you know, putting other things together that simply aren’t connected. So, yes, I brought this forward. I appreciate Councillor Hopkins comments about strong mayor powers.
[1:28:07] I appreciate Councillor Trossau’s continued concerns about them. I will just let colleagues know there was an analysis done of strong mayor powers across the province. I’ve used it the least. And when I have, I’ve used it to bring things before Council for Council decision-making for the most part, including this. So, this is a council decision. Yes, I got it here quickly, but it’s a council decision and we’ll have the ability to discuss and debate this. The situation in the province is not great. Homeless has gone up 25% over the last two years in 19% in London. Now, that’s not bad on our part, given the enormous population increase, we’re above average on population increase and below average on increase in homeless. But it’s still increasing. And so, we need to do more in all these spaces. The province needs to do more in all these spaces. But we have people who are going to be unsheltered in larger numbers this winter if we don’t take some action.
[1:28:58] So, this allows us to open additional shelter-based spaces on a quick time frame. It’s not ideal. It’s the time frame is an ideal. The process is an ideal. But staff have done a good job of putting something before us. Someone said, this is a difficult decision. It is a difficult decision. And frankly, with the utmost respect, I don’t actually care that it’s a difficult decision. We have to deal with difficult decisions all the time in this council. And the difficult decision for other people is trying to find a place to sleep at night through the winter. What we talk about is this make a noticeable difference. I don’t know. Maybe it’ll help in the downtown core. Maybe it’ll help in all these village. Maybe it’ll help in our parks or doorways. But it absolutely will help for the people who are going to be in these spaces through the winter and through the summer and through the winter.
[1:29:47] And there will be flow through. It’s not just going to be 60 spaces. People are going to be in there. And as was identified by our staff, they are going to get support services. They’re going to be on tracks to housing. They’re going to get employment supports. They’re going to get help. And we’re going to help them get into housing because everything we do is about getting people into housing in the proper ways. You know, this is a challenging situation municipalities are in. I totally agree. You know, the province should be doing more. You know, the heart hubs are on the verge of opening. We know that they’re going to help. But the investment probably isn’t enough when you see the rise.
[1:30:23] And there’s only so much we can do in the city of London when it’s a 25% increase. But we can do some things. You know, we can actually shelter some people through the winter and a couple of winters here. If we move quickly. I appreciate the challenge that Councillor Hillier has. I know that he’s looking for a deferral. I know he wants to consult. I don’t blame him. I think he’s representing his constituents well there. But I also think that of all the sites that are available out there in the city, this one minimizes the negative impacts. I think Deputy Mayor Lewis spoke well to how a remote site as an option, not the only option, but as an option in the city can be very helpful to some individuals who are moving into that site. And I think we have to provide a variety of options here. We have traditional shelters in our core area. This will be something a little bit different.
[1:31:08] It’ll be something with a little bit of a different setup and structure. And we’re going to learn a lot from it. And I think our staff have done a good job of pulling together best practices from others who have moved down this path already. So again, I respect the debate around this table. I know it’s a challenging decision to make. I know that the time frames are tight, but the time frames are tight for people who are going to be outdoors in this winter too. We’re not going to be able to help everybody. We’re not right through this and our winter searching of spaces. We know there will still be people who live unsheltered on the streets this winter, but we can do more. And this is one of the things that we can do. So I hope for your support today. I’ll be supporting the motion. I won’t be just supporting any referrals or deferrals of this.
[1:31:46] And I think we can move forward this. And I will also mention this is a two winter plan. We can adjust with what we learned through this winter. We have service providers who have done this before. We can learn from them. We can learn from other municipalities. We can make adjustments as we go. And we can actually help some people through this winter and we can get more services in our community for people who we know need it. Thank you, Mayor Morgan. I have Councillor Palosa. Next. Go ahead. You got five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chair for recognizing me as I’m also not a member of this committee. I do have a series of questions through you to a variety of staff. Realizing this came before us as step already said, because it was a strong mayor directive to bring it back with the mayor of had the power as well to implement these recommendations without council.
[1:32:34] This is a question for the mayor, I believe. I would assume, Mr. Schultz is or someone. Okay, let’s go to I’ll go to Miss Poland. Go ahead. Thank you and through you under the strong mayor powers. That includes the ability to implement decisions made by head of council under under the strong mayor provisions. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. So I do appreciate the conversation at this point of staff’s report coming back to us would have appreciated being part of the conversation prior to this point. I’ve had some conversations with community and different colleagues that we all had different ideas. We have some community space of our own in our words that we would have maybe brought forward and discussed how that could have been actually utilized for some of these spaces.
[1:33:31] My second question is staff have mentioned or others that including the mayor that the heart hubs will help. I believe we anticipate an April 1 opening date. Do we know if those will be online before the cold weather starts in as well. Thank you, Councillor. That is a good question. I will go to my mark and go ahead. Yes, so I don’t have permission to release a date, but I can tell you it’ll be before the end of the month. Thank you, Councillor. I think the weather is changing, but that’s perfect timing before the end of the month. So look forward to when we can gather and welcome that space being open.
[1:34:16] Question through you to staff for the procurement and efficiencies. I saw within the reports for procurement using canoe. I know we’ve used it before quite successfully. We had one out of town business reach out about how they can get in on consideration for providing these units had some local businesses as well reach out. Looking to see if you know if there’s already local providers as in like London specifically that’s in there just realizing that they’re also wanting to help and keep their industries going and be part of the community solution. So just for you to staff, they can outline that procurement if London businesses already in it, or if it’s too late for them to go through this canoe vetting process.
[1:35:04] Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Mr. Amaloo. Go ahead. Thank you through the chair. Just briefly, yes, we have had a number of businesses and organizations reach out to us and we have been responding to those and we greatly appreciate their offers, especially of some of the organizations around the city wanting to help. And to be in keeping with our procurement policy, we do have a plan in place, which I will let Mr. Aurora detail further. Thank you, Miss Aurora. Go ahead. Thank you through the chair. So, yes, for the modular shelters.
[1:35:40] We will be utilizing the VORs, which are pre-qualified suppliers set up by OECM and canoe for other procurement services will be utilizing our cities existing contracts. We will be also utilizing the current vendors we have for other procurement services. It will be a total coming together of all the channels we have available to make this plan happen in the timely manner. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. A follow-up to that question. I appreciate that we’re using pre-qualified suppliers, but if someone’s interested now, is the timeline too short for them to become a pre-qualified supplier via canoe or one of those other platforms that were mentioned.
[1:36:26] Yes, thank you through the chair. Yes, the timeline is pretty short. Thank you, Councillor. Okay. Thank you. I have a question regarding the motion part F. It’s that civic administration report back to council on the negotiated agreements and formal contract awards. Realizing staff will have the ability to negotiate this. When could we anticipate that updated report coming back to us? Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Ms. Ramalo. Go ahead. Thank you. Through the chair, I would expect towards the end of Q1 or beginning of Q2 in 2026. Thank you, Councillor.
[1:37:07] Thank you. I’m not okay with that. I guess my question really comes down to if we’re trying to get these units open by your end and we’re picking suppliers, sites, preparation, and a service provider. How am I going to find out who the successful service provider was? I don’t want to wait until Q2 next year. Thank you. I will go to just stand by Councillor Ramalo. Thank you through the chair. Either we can do it informally or we could report back on things as we go.
[1:37:59] I listed that timeframe simply so that we would have a complete report with the entire package, but yes, no doubt we will be procuring things faster. Some are through existing contracts and so on. Just also thinking in terms of the normal timelines that get reports through, that’s really what went into the timing of it. But certainly we can report back more frequently or informally if that would meet the Councillor’s needs. Thank you. And just before I go back to the Councillor, are any motions required for that or is staff able to bring it back just from the record here? Through the chair, consensus amongst staff seems to be that we don’t need a motion for that. Thank you.
[1:38:44] Councillor, go ahead. Thank you. I always appreciate the head nod of consensus. And I’m fine for that. Just a little like a briefing note versus an actual report. I know that we’ve used those in the past. My next one has to deal with. I think it’s probably a motion. I don’t serve on committee. So I couldn’t do a motion here would have to do it. Council looking for civic administration to reach out to the London Transit Commission and discuss this site. It’s concerned as they might have indoor servicing. It’s currently on route 30 as we have not engaged with them yet. This route.
[1:39:24] And I did hear that the service provider might have their own transportation to get unhoused Londoners to appointments and other things they need to come into town for. But even for the service provider for their employees getting up to the site, this current site does not operate seven days a week and only operates at peak hours. So not a full route that we’re used to seeing, especially for looking at putting other things out there. That was just my concern that it would leave any employees or people using those services completely isolated or bound to what something someone else is potentially offering them. So that were my main concerns. Like I said, a lot behind the scenes. A lot of residents still having questions.
[1:40:07] And just thank you for the conversation today. Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left? You have 23 seconds. Okay, I’m going to save that in case I need it. Thank you. Thank you. I have Councilor. Next, please go ahead. You have five minutes. Thank you. Appreciate the time. And as I’m not a member of this committee, I appreciate the ability to ask questions at this point and contemplate potential emotions for Council, I guess, at this point, as this has come to a standing committee of which I am not a member. So I do have a number of, I guess, procedural questions that have kind of come to me as we’ve been discussing this and as I read this report.
[1:40:55] So my apologies for not getting these to staff ahead of time, but I wanted to ask a question procedurally as it relates to Councilor Hillyer’s question about a referral. My question would be if a referral is a challenge for committee at this point. With, is there, is there an ability, I guess, this question to the clerk, could we suspend our Council procedure by law to allow public feedback at our Council meeting to hear from residents of ward 14 in the rest of the community. Thank you, Councillor. Let me just, uh, prefer to see where I will answer that just a second. Councillor, I will have the deputy city clerk respond. Thank you through the chair. The added agenda deadline is 9am on Friday. So if the public wishes to submit communications with respect to the matter, they can do so by that deadline.
[1:42:07] Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you. My question was related to delegation status. Can they delegate to Council by way of suspending our procedural by law? Is there a way to do that in advance of Council? Through the chair, there’s no way to suspend prior to Council, but we can consult with Mr. Schultis and Mayor to see if a suspension of the rules be permitted. Thank you. Go ahead. Sorry, Councillor. Go ahead. Thank you. I appreciate that answer. I hope that that conference takes place between the mayor and the clerk to find a way forward for the public to be able to have the ability to provide their feedback. By way of public delegation. I do think that it’s important as we make these kinds of decisions with taxpayer dollars from our municipality that from our city that we have the ability to have those kinds of dialogue and conversation, whether that’s on all sides of this debate.
[1:43:13] I think it’s very important. I just want to continue with some of my questions from a procedural perspective. Not sure who this should be directed to. My next question has to do with. Does declaring an emergency at this point in time provide the possibility for additional resource deployment from the province since we are moving this forward under urgent threat in terms of the language. Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Mr. Lettiser. Go ahead. Through the chair, generally declaring an emergency doesn’t necessarily give a municipality funding or equate to funding. Likewise, not declaring an emergency doesn’t mean that an municipality can’t ask for funding as well. What we’ve seen across the province is other municipalities have declared emergencies.
[1:44:03] It’s been well known through the media and from what I’ve understood from my colleagues and those municipalities, they have not received funding as a result of those declarations at this point. So I don’t see any advantage at this point, whether there was a declaration made or not made to an avenue for funding. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. Mr. May, there’s happened to mention about the zoning that we were able to move forward with this because of we don’t need a zoning change because of the ability to use zoning when it’s in the public interest. I’m just wondering, can you give examples, perhaps of where we may have used that in the past, or if this is precedent. Thank you. Mr. May, just go ahead. Through the chair. So the most recent example of this is the emergency services canvas that came forward to Council.
[1:45:02] Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. And that’s a situation where we didn’t amend the zoning because we were in the same vein, thinking that this is for, for a short term use, or because we were able to move forward. Or because we’re able to do it. And so we’re just doing that because we are able to do it. I’m trying to understand. I understand why we’re using it, I guess, in a sense now from the perspective of urgency. But in that example, I’m just trying to understand the difference a little bit more. Thank you, Councillor. I will. Yeah, through the chair. So it’s not a simple answer, just like any planning consideration.
[1:46:01] It’s multiple factors. So in the case of the campus we were just discussing, it was also looking at what that long term planning context was. So it could be used in any case as a for that public use. We can make that rationale. And that’s part of the planning considerations we need to bring forward. So that was an example of using that public use perspective and not having to do rezoning. Similarly here, we’ve used an overall planning context looking at what the long term expectations of this site would be that long term expectation is going to be an industrial site. However, due to the urgency and then also the temporary nature of was being suggested, we feel that it’s appropriate that this be considered a public use and a zoning amendment would not be required.
[1:46:50] Thank you, Councillor. Go ahead. Thank you. Really appreciate that clarification. I want to ask some questions. I’m not sure how on the issue of governance. So I understand that this falls inside of maybe some of the work of the whole of community. And I appreciate that response. I’m just wondering. As we move through this, I understand we may get some reports back and some briefing notes. I would like some decision points or to understand more firmly where our decision points are. I’d also like to understand what the governance would look like in this circumstance. I’d also like to understand if, you know, we should be considering things like small working groups of Council or sub task force things like that.
[1:47:39] I want to be able to undertake some of the necessary work work since we’re doing this in short order. I want to be very clear that when we’re making these kinds of decisions, I want to ensure that although we’re moving quickly, we’re, we as a Council are ensuring that we are doing and ensuring that we are doing everything we can to ask all the questions that we have. And so for me, that that looks like having meetings with my colleagues to be able to hear their thoughts and to bounce ideas, as well as to ensure that you’re starting to interrupt you there. I gave you a little more than five minutes there. Your time is completed. Okay. I know that we some people are some members and some visiting members have some extra time.
[1:48:31] If anybody wants to add Councillor Pribble, you have. I’m sorry, David, I did sorry, Council for I did ask a question. Oh, okay. Related to governance and decision points. It was with the governance structure. I believe I will go to staff with that. Before I go to Council Pribble who does have five minutes. Mr Dickens. Thank you chair. I’ll start this response and then others can jump in if need to, as far as governance, we’re going to be contracting services. There will not be some governance body created to oversee the site. And as far as the decision points, this is the key one. Thank you. Council Pribble.
[1:49:29] Thank you. One specific question going back to the presentation that we heard. It’s at other requirements 24 hour on site security. You mentioned also considered. Can you please specify because in the presentation, it seemed like it is a requirement must. And verbally, you said also considered. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. Mr Emily, go ahead. Thank you. I believe my language just was just in general of things that we’re taking into consideration 24 hours security being well, those things identified as an absolute need. Mr Latiser, sorry, go ahead. Sorry, further through the chair. Yeah, absolutely. Security will be a significant component of this to ensure and that will combine a full septed of the facility as well.
[1:50:22] And then providing security as needed and as required, likely in a 24/7 format. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you for that. If this project, this initiative moves forward. And I know we are talking about 60 people. I certainly hope that through the proper case management, it’s going to be more than 60 and will be moving on people getting them on track and for them move forward. One of the things that was mentioned is remoteness. And as it was stated, when previous council was talking about the two golf courses in East London and there were comments made like, first of all, they will not want to go there and second, if they go there, they will die. I remember Monday, Tuesday, I talked to 26 homeless people on my own and through 519 pursuit, which I volunteered with. Of 26 people, 25 said, where can I sign up? I want to go there. It’s time to phrase. I need, I need a shelter.
[1:51:21] So I don’t have an issue with remoteness. And as I said, that one person was an older gentleman that he needed to be closer to downtown housing spectrum. And we have a fantastic, we have a great housing spectrum. And the right side, the long term one, I’m tremendously, tremendously proud of. The left side always stated that I believe that we are weak on that side. We have the encampments. And let’s say we have the next step, kind of the hubs. This is a piece that certainly would fill that side. And I do think that we need to address this issue on the left side. And this certainly would be an initiative that would fill that space. Many of these questions, what we’re asked and the answer is given, I already heard. Why? Because of the quick communities.
[1:52:09] That shows me that the quick communities wasn’t far away from what we are dealing with it now. Just heads up. If we did take it in a different manner, we didn’t have to be here now. The public could have been involved. We could have had feedback. We could have talked more about it. Now we are stressed with time. And now we are doing it. Am I glad we are doing it? Absolutely. We need it. On the other hand, if we took a different approach, we had more time to discuss and plan and potentially maximize our opportunities. And again, if you make the last many decisions, costs sometimes are higher than if you plan in advance. It is a big step. This is a huge step for our community.
[1:52:54] I’m very glad that all those names on the report stated that most of you are here. Most of the council is higher here because this is a big step for our community. One advantage is that other communities have tried it. Some of them we can learn from the best practices. We can learn what work, what didn’t work. I certainly hope we are going to maximize our opportunities through this. And I do believe that I’m glad, even though it could have been earlier, I’m glad you as a team came forward. All your signatures are under. I hope it does go through. I hope we stay focused on this. We deliver the best possible initiative with the best possible cost. And let’s focus on those first 16 individuals. And let’s focus focus on case management, case management to move them on and create spaces for the other one. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. All right.
[1:53:51] I have exhausted my speaker’s list. I have. Okay. I saw Councillor Hillier first and then Councillor Pelosas. So let me just look at the times we have for them. So Councillor Hillier has. You have lots of time, Councillor Hillier. You have four and a half minutes. Go ahead. Excellent. Thank you very much. First of all, I really appreciate the conversation we’re having because it’s addressing some of the concerns I’ve been hearing from the neighborhood, obviously. My commercial tenants, the employers, they are concerned about this because we were given very, very short notice, two and a half days. That’s not a lot of time to get a response from the residents of the area because there are no residents of the area, but they are there for half of the day and they’re concerned.
[1:54:39] And I don’t feel we have actually addressed all of their concerns yet. Now, I have a feeling this is going to go through. There’s not much I can do to stop it. And I’m not opposed to it. I actually need this. But what I don’t like is the process and how this was pushed through quickly. I appreciate the mayor not using a special mayor power to shove this through. So we are having this conversation. I just wish it happened a month ago. I am hoping someone in this committee will move it if we’re all just for one cycle, just so the community can reach out and talk to us. I know it’s going to go through, but I think that should be addressed. Thank you, Councillor.
[1:55:17] And I have Councillor Palosa. You have 20, 27 seconds. 20 seconds. Go ahead. I will ramble off my questions then. My question for you to staff is, will the media and council members be given an opportunity to see the site prior to residents moving in? And what is the plan to engage with local businesses out in that area? Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. Mr. Dickens. Through you, Chair, I’ll answer the second question first. Yes, as part of the operationalizing of this site, it will be required that we engage with the nearby factories that are there to ensure that they have a point of contact.
[1:56:06] That is best done when we actually have people in place to operate the site, including security services, so that we can create a viable avenue for those organizations that surround the site to have a singular point of contact. So that if they have any concerns, they can escalate them, but also it allows us to have those conversations and relationship building ahead of time to ease any of the assumptions or concerns that perhaps those folks might have. Thank you, Councillor. You have 10 seconds. Mr. Dickens answered the second question, but I’m still waiting for the first part to be answered.
[1:56:44] Correct. And that doesn’t count towards her time. So she still has 10. Mr. Dater’s bear. Go ahead. Thank you through you. The answer is yes. We will certainly avail ourselves to make available to council members and others an opportunity to have a visit to the site as best as we can, recognizing that we want to implement as quickly as possible. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. I appreciate that. Just recognize some members of council had the opportunity to see the cold winter warming centers open and some did not. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. That’s exactly five minutes. All right, looking for any other speakers, Councillor, how much time do you have? I do want to put myself on the list as well.
[1:57:24] You have one minute. Go ahead, Councillor. I’m not willing to make a motion to refer the whole thing, but I would like to make an offer an amendment to be. And that is part B and part B only is referred to staff for additional information about alternative sites to be to be reported back at or before the upcoming council meeting. And I don’t think it’s a burden because you already have that information. Thank you, Councillor. Just a second. Let’s see. I just want to get the clerk’s language, and I am looking for a seconder. One last call for a seconder for the referral. I see none. Just a second, Councillor. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead, Councillor.
[1:58:36] Yes, just to finish. I’m going to vote for this today as troubled as I am by it, which doesn’t make a lot of sense, but I want this to go through. I am going to reserve these issues that I’ve raised today, and I think they’re substantial and compelling for council, and I will be making the same motion and council. I really hope that staff is willing to change their mind and give us some of this information that I’ve been asking for before the council meeting, or I hope that the mayor exercises his power to get this information to us. I would feel very comfortable making this decision, because I think I like the funding.
[1:59:13] I like the fact that we’re going to go ahead with our partners. This is all good. My only problem is the site selection without more information. Thank you, Councillor. I think this needs to be filled in, and I’ll have more to say it, Council. Thank you, Councillor. Okay. Anybody else? Councillor McAllister, my first officer, can you take control? First officer, I didn’t make it so. Go ahead, Councillor. Sorry, Councillor. I meant vice chair. Thank you, presiding officer. So, I had a lot of questions. Most of them have been quite exhausted here, so I’m not going to ask them. But some of the points that really kind of stood out to me was, is the site ideal? Is the site not ideal?
[1:59:55] And I don’t think we’re ever going to find an ideal site. This is as close as it gets from our experience, from our discussion, from what we know. In the past, we’ve seen with the whole community response, us make attempts to more evenly distribute our services throughout the city, and those past experiences have informed this direction. So, speaking to the idealness, if that’s a word of the site, I get some of the concerns from Councillors, but we can outweigh that with the operation. It’s a matter of how do we operate the site, and this operation from what I see from the report and from my conversations is going to be informed and advised by some agency providers, either the agency that’s going to be operating the site, which I know is still being coordinated.
[2:00:43] But I do know that there’s some agencies out there that have experience when it comes to pallet-like structures or microhomes, and I would hope that those agencies are consulted for the most ideal operation of the site. If we can operate it in that way, and I will also mention, this is going to be different from our service depot model, we’re going to have staff on site all the time. We’re going to have agencies operating on the site, the security on the site, we’re going to have transportation on the site, food services, so this is going to be a much different operation than we saw before. On that, locations, like I have homelessness and the discussion they’re in, and our response, probably around 70 to 80% of every single day when I’m here working at Council. And my days are very long, so my residents are screaming for this, they’re asking for some assistance, they’re asking for some help, and they’re asking for more capacity.
[2:01:39] I have residents in the gallery right now who I had a meeting with two days ago for two and a half hours to just try to explain the situation we’re in to explain the lack of supports that we get from other levels of government. I will say that, and just to explain how we’re operating in this environment and in this system. This Council is trying to make strides to move forward, we’re one of the only bodies that I see that are actually trying to do this, and it is a very difficult thing for us to do. And as you can see, anybody who’s been watching for a long period of time, especially during this term, you know the challenges that we’re in, you’ve seen the challenges that we went through.
[2:02:19] And in the end, it has been mentioned here with population of people who are street level has increased in London by 19% since 2022. Yes, it’s better than the provincial average, but almost 20% is still a very significant number. The population of those who have more complex needs has also increased much higher than that. That is in a report that we had at this committee on the last cycle. So, adding extra spaces and extra capacity is exactly what we need to do. I do have concern of the temporary nature of the location because I know that that means that we’re going to be having this discussion of these 60 shelter, these micro shelters again, and where a new location would be.
[2:03:01] And ideally, I would like to talk about additional capacity rather than the current existing capacity. So, we are going to be discussing this again, and we should be, in my opinion, talking about new capacity during my term with the increase of people who are street level and seeing some of the things that have happened. You know, we could have more capacity right now, and I wish that we did, but I will take what we can get. I will take that extra additional capacity. Are we going to notice on the street? Considering the numbers? We may. We may not, but I’ve heard 60 people will definitely notice it.
[2:03:41] Do we have people who are willing to go to this location? We have well more than 60 people who are willing to go? Way more. So, with that, I hope that we get this vote on this committee. I hope it goes through Council, and I hope we get to the timelines. I hear what Councillor Hillier is saying. I hear what you’re saying about having the public engagement process. The protracted nature of this process, yes, I hear your concerns. I have been trying to consult with my members of my communities as much as I can. I hope that all Councillors do as well. We still have some time from now to Council. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to be changing my vote because we need this, and I need this, and my constituents need this.
[2:04:23] And I’m not the only ward Councillor who needs this. There’s three of us who really need this. There’s several more who need this a little bit, and we’re really looking for some support. We need to increase that capacity. The location is always going to be the issue that I’ve seen in my term. It’s always about the location. So I hope that Council supports this. I really appreciate the discussion that we had. I’m going to be voting a yes on this all the way through, and you are definitely going to hear a discussion again at Council. So stay tuned. Anybody who wants to submit their submissions, please submit that to the Council agenda. That will be on the added. Thank you.
[2:05:04] Okay, you’re a little bit over. I don’t have one on my speakers list, but Captain, the con is yours. Back to you. All right, I’ll take it back. Last call. Okay, we can separate B. Any other items to be separated from this motion? None. Okay, can we separate B? Okay, we’re going to vote on B first, and then we’re going to vote on the remainder of the entire motion. So, calling the question. Be calling the question for B. Councillors, that’s up in the E-Scribe. You can vote. Refresh your screens, please. If it’s not working, you can vote with the mic. The clerk can take your vote that way.
[2:06:19] I’ll vote no on B. Councilor McAllister, closing the vote. The motion carries five to one. Okay, the remainder of the vote is coming up in E-Scribe now. Let’s call that question. I’ll also vote T.S. on the remainder. Closing the vote. The motion carries six to zero. Okay, that is it for items for direction. Next is deferred matters additional business. We have none. Next is a German looking for a motion to adjourn moved by Council McAllister, seconded by Councillor Cudi all by hand in favor. All opposed. That motion carries.