November 10, 2025, at 1:00 PM
Present:
D. Ferreira, H. McAlister, P. Cuddy, J. Pribil, S. Trosow
Also Present:
S. Stevenson, A. Hopkins, K. Abdelhamid, A. Abraham, R. Armestead, M. Butlin, S. Chambers, K. Dickins, D. Ennett, M. Feldberg, D. Hall, P. Ladouceur, K. Lawrence, L. Marshall, S. Mathers, D. McRae, J. Paradis, A. Pfeffer, K. Scherr, E. Skalski, C. Smith, K. Mason (Acting Committee Clerk)
Remote Attendance:
Deputy S. Lewis, C. Rahman, S. Franke, E. Peloza, S. Hillier, S. Datars Bere, E. Bennett, G. Bridge, S. Corman
The meeting was called to order at 1:00 PM, it being noted that Councillor S. Trosow was in remote attendance.
1. Disclosures of Pecuniary Interest
None.
2. Consent
Moved by J. Pribil
Seconded by S. Trosow
That, pursuant to section 27.6 of the Council Procedure By-law, a change in order of the Community and Protective Services Committee Agenda BE APPROVED, to provide for Item 2.8 in Stage 2, Consent, to be considered after Stage 6, Confidential.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
Moved by P. Cuddy
Seconded by H. McAlister
That Items 2.1-2.4, 2.6, 2.7, and 2.9, BE APPROVED.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
2.1 7th Report of the Environmental Stewardship and Action Community Advisory Committee
2025-10-23 ESACAC Report - FULL
Moved by P. Cuddy
Seconded by H. McAlister
That the following actions be taken with respect to the 7th Report of the Environmental Stewardship and Action Community Advisory Committee, from the meeting held on October 23, 2025:
a) the attached, revised, report from the Environmental Stewardship and Action Community Advisory Committee (ESACAC) Parks Working Group BE APPROVED and BE APPENDED to the ESACAC report; and,
b) 1.1 and 3.1 to 3.6 BE RECEIVED.
Motion Passed
2.2 Mental Health Supports for Public Safety Personnel Grant Program Transfer Payment Agreement
2025-11-10 (2.2) Staff Report - Mental Health Supports for Public Safety PGP
Moved by P. Cuddy
Seconded by H. McAlister
That on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Neighbourhood and Community-Wide Services, the proposed by-law as appended to the staff report dated November 10, 2025, as Appendix “A” BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on November 25, 2025, to:
a) APPROVE the Ontario Transfer Payment Agreement between His Majesty the King in right of Ontario as represented by the Minister of the Solicitor General, and The Corporation of the City of London for the Mental Health Supports for Public Safety Personnel Grant Program (“Agreement”) attached as Schedule “1”;
b) AUTHORIZE the Mayor and the City Clerk to execute the Agreement; and,
c) AUTHORIZE the Deputy City Manager, Neighbourhood and Community-Wide Services, or their written designate, to execute any reports required by the province under the Agreement.
Motion Passed
2.3 London’s Bicentennial 200th Anniversary Update
2025-11-10 (2.3) Staff Report - Londons Bicentennial 200th Anniversary Update
Moved by P. Cuddy
Seconded by H. McAlister
That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Neighbourhood and Community-Wide Services, the staff report dated November 10, 2025, related to London’s Bicentennial 200th Anniversary Update, BE RECEIVED.
Motion Passed
2.4 2025 Annual Emergency Management Program Update
2025-11-10 (2.4) Staff Report - 2025 Annual Emergency Management Program Update
Moved by P. Cuddy
Seconded by H. McAlister
That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Enterprise Supports the following actions be taken with respect to the staff report dated November 10, 2025, related to the 2025 Annual Emergency Management Program Update:
a) the by-law as appended to the above-noted staff report as Appendix “A” BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on November 25, 2025, to amend By-law A.7657-4 by repealing and replacing Schedule “A” of the by-law with the new City of London Emergency Response Plan as set out in Schedule “A”.
b) the balance of this report, including an update of the Emergency Management Program BE RECEIVED.
Motion Passed
2.6 City’s Response to MTO Annual Electric Kick-Scooter Pilot Extension
2025-11-10 (2.6) Staff Report - Citys Response to MTO Annual Electric Kick Scooter Pilot
Moved by P. Cuddy
Seconded by H. McAlister
That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Environment and Infrastructure, the following actions be taken with respect to the staff report dated November 10, 2025, related to the City’s response to the Ministry of Transportation Annual Electric Kick-Scooter Pilot Extension:
a) the proposed by-law as appended to the above-noted staff report as Appendix “A” BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on November 25, 2025, to amend By-law A.-8344-62, Electric Kick-Scooter and Cargo Power-assisted Bicycle By-law, to come into force and effect on November 26, 2025, for one year, to extend the pilot program for Electric Kick-Scooters to November 26, 2026, as the Province allows a pilot extension of up to five years; and,
b) the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to report back to the Community and Protective Services Committee and the Municipal Council in March 2026, on the electric kick-scooter data gathering, engagement, and enforcement work completed in 2025.
Motion Passed
2.7 Approval of Service Agreement with WLK Seniors Assistance Association Inc.
2025-11-10 (2.7) Staff Report - Approval of Service with WLK Seniors Assistance Association
Moved by P. Cuddy
Seconded by H. McAlister
That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Housing and Community Growth, the proposed by-law as appended to the staff report dated November 10, 2025, as Appendix “A”, BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on November 25, 2025 to:
a) APPROVE the Service Agreement between The Corporation of the City of London and W.L.K. Seniors Assistance Association Inc. attached as Schedule “1” (the “Service Agreement”);
b) AUTHORIZE the Deputy City Manager, Housing and Community Growth to approve amendments to the Service Agreement;
c) AUTHORIZE the Mayor and the City Clerk to execute the Service Agreement; and,
d) AUTHORIZE the Deputy City Manager, Housing and Community Growth, or their written designate, to approve and execute any future amending agreements to the Service Agreement.
Motion Passed
2.9 Approval of Service Agreement with Gilzean’s Creek Housing Co-operative Inc.
Moved by P. Cuddy
Seconded by H. McAlister
That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Housing and Community Growth, the proposed by-law as appended to the staff report dated November 10, 2025, as Appendix “A”, BE INTRODUCED at the Municipal Council meeting to be held on November 25, 2025, to:
a) APPROVE the Service Agreement between The Corporation of the City of London and Gilzean’s Creek Housing Co-operative Inc. attached as Schedule “1” (the “Service Agreement”);
b) AUTHORIZE the Deputy City Manager, Housing and Community Growth to approve amendments to the Service Agreement;
c) AUTHORIZE the Mayor and the City Clerk to execute the Service Agreement; and,
d) AUTHORIZE the Deputy City Manager, Housing and Community Growth, or their written designate to approve and execute any future amending agreements to the Service Agreement.
Motion Passed
2.5 Blue Box Transition Final Year - Part B Update
2025-11-10 (2.5) Staff Report - Blue Box Transition Final Year - Part B Update
Moved by D. Ferreira
Seconded by H. McAlister
That the following actions BE TAKEN with respect to the Staff Report - Blue Box Transition Final Year - Part B Update:
a) the staff report dated November 10, 2025, related to this Part B Update of the Blue Box Transition Final Year BE RECEIVED;
b) the Civic administration BE DIRECTED to investigate and report back to a future meeting of the Infrastructure and Corporate Services Committee on potential interim measures that would ameliorate the cost pressure on small businesses, places of worship and non-profits as “non-eligible sources” associated with changes to the Blue Box program, including cost information and options for funding; and
c) the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to request the Ministry of Environment, Conservation and Parks amend the Blue Box Regulation (Reg 210/25) to include non-profit organizations, places of worship, and other small businesses in the definition of “eligible sources”; and,
d) the Mayor, and the Association of Municipalities of Ontario (AMO), BE REQUESTED to advocate the Ministry of Environment, Conservation and Parks to amend the Blue Box Regulation (Reg 210/25) to include non-profit organizations, places of worship, and other small businesses in the definition of “eligible sources”.
Additional Votes:
Moved by S. Trosow
Seconded by D. Ferreira
That the following actions BE TAKEN with respect to the Staff Report - Blue Box Transition Final Year - Part B Update:
a) the staff report dated November 10, 2025, related to this Part B Update of the Blue Box Transition Final Year BE RECEIVED;
b) the Civic administration BE DIRECTED to investigate and report back to a future meeting of the Infrastructure and Corporate Services Committee on potential interim measures that would ameliorate the cost pressure on small businesses, places of worship and non-profits as “non-eligible sources” associated with changes to the Blue Box program, including cost information and options for funding; and
c) the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to request the Ministry of Environment, Conservation and Parks amend the Blue Box Regulation (Reg 210/25) to include non-profit organizations, places of worship, and other small businesses in the definition of “eligible sources”; and,
Moved by D. Ferreira
Seconded by S. Trosow
That the motion BE AMENDED to add a new part that reads as follows;
d) the Mayor, and the Association of Municipalities of Ontario (AMO), BE REQUESTED to advocate the Ministry of Environment, Conservation and Parks to amend the Blue Box Regulation (Reg 210/25) to include non-profit organizations, places of worship, and other small businesses in the definition of “eligible sources.”
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
Moved by D. Ferreira
Seconded by H. McAlister
That the motion, as amended, BE APPROVED.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
2.8 Housing Collaborative Initiative - Updated Financials and Project Conclusion
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by S. Trosow
That, on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Housing and Community Growth the staff report dated November 10, 2025, related to the Housing Collaborative Initiative – Updated Financials and Project Conclusion BE RECEIVED.
Vote:
Yeas: Absent: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (4 to 0)
Additional Votes:
Moved by J. Pribil
Seconded by H. McAlister
That pursuant to section 31.6 of the Council Procedure By-law, Councillor S. Stevenson BE PERMITTED to speak an additional 2 minutes with respect to this matter.
Vote:
Yeas: Nays: Absent: H. McAlister S. Trosow P. Cuddy J. Pribil D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (3 to 1)
3. Scheduled Items
3.1 Item not to be heard before 1:05 PM - PUBLIC PARTICIPATION MEETING - Lambeth Neighbourhood Connectivity Plan
2025-11-10 (3.1) Staff Report - Lambeth Neighbourhood Connectivity Plan
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by J. Pribil
That on the recommendation of the Deputy City Manager, Environment and Infrastructure, the staff report dated November 10, 2025, related to the Lambeth Neighbourhood Connectivity Plan map, as appended as Appendix “A”, BE APPROVED to inform the annual Renew London Construction Program and New Sidewalk Program;
it being pointed out that the following individuals made verbal presentations at the public participation meeting held in conjunction with these matters:
- M. Wallace, London Development Institute;
it being noted that the staff presentation related to this item, was received.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
Additional Votes:
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by P. Cuddy
Motion to open the public participation meeting.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by P. Cuddy
Motion to close the public participation meeting.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
4. Items for Direction
4.1 Councillor H. McAlister - Dumpsters in Residential Areas
2025-11-10 Sub. Dumpsters in Residential Areas - McAlister
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by J. Pribil
That Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to review the Property Standards By-law- CP-24, as it pertains to residential dumpsters, and report back to a future meeting of the Community and Protective Services Committee with potential recommendations to strengthen the by-law, with a particular focus on mitigating the risk rodent infestation.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
4.2 Councillor H. McAlister - Garbage Along the Highbury Avenue South Corridor (Between Hamilton Road and Bradley Avenue)
2025-11-10 Sub. Garbage along Highbury Ave S Corridor - McAlister
That the following actions be taken with respect to the garbage along the Highbury Avenue South Corridor between Hamilton Road and Bradley Avenue:
a) the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to report back to a future meeting of the Community and Protective Services Committee, with potential options for two scheduled clean ups and enforcement options of garbage along Highbury Avenue South between Hamilton Rd and Bradley Avenue, including the associated operational considerations, resource requirements, and estimated costs; and,
b) the Mayor BE REQUESTED to engage with the Mayor of St. Thomas and the Warden of Elgin County regarding a potential joint communications campaign, to remind residents and commercial operators to properly secure their loads while travelling on area roads, particularly along the Highbury Avenue South corridor.
Additional Votes:
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by P. Cuddy
That the following actions be taken with respect to the garbage along the Highbury Avenue South Corridor between Hamilton Road and Bradley Avenue:
a) the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to report back to a future meeting of the Community and Protective Services Committee, with potential options for scheduled clean ups of Highbury Avenue South between Hamilton Rd and Bradley Avenue, including the associated operational considerations, resource requirements, and estimated costs; and,
b) the Mayor BE REQUESTED to engage with the Mayor of St. Thomas regarding a potential joint communications campaign, to remind residents and commercial operators to properly secure their loads while travelling on area roads, particularly along the Highbury Avenue South corridor.
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by P. Cuddy
That the motion BE AMENDED to read as follows
That the following actions be taken with respect to the garbage along the Highbury Avenue South Corridor between Hamilton Road and Bradley Avenue:
a) the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to report back to a future meeting of the Community and Protective Services Committee, with potential options for enforcement options of garbage along Highbury Avenue South between Hamilton Rd and Bradley Avenue, including the associated operational considerations, resource requirements, and estimated costs; and,
b) the Mayor BE REQUESTED to engage with the Mayor of St. Thomas and the Warden of Elgin County regarding a potential joint communications campaign, to remind residents and commercial operators to properly secure their loads while travelling on area roads, particularly along the Highbury Avenue South corridor.
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by P. Cuddy
That the motion BE FURTHER AMENDED to read as follows
That the following actions be taken with respect to the garbage along the Highbury Avenue South Corridor between Hamilton Road and Bradley Avenue:
a) the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to report back to a future meeting of the Community and Protective Services Committee, with potential options for two scheduled clean ups and enforcement options of garbage along Highbury Avenue South between Hamilton Rd and Bradley Avenue, including the associated operational considerations, resource requirements, and estimated costs; and,
b) the Mayor BE REQUESTED to engage with the Mayor of St. Thomas and the Warden of Elgin County regarding a potential joint communications campaign, to remind residents and commercial operators to properly secure their loads while travelling on area roads, particularly along the Highbury Avenue South corridor.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by P. Cuddy
That the amendment, as amended, BE APPROVED.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by P. Cuddy
That the motion, as amended, BE APPROVED.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
4.3 Councillor H. McAlister - Veteran Public Art Display
2025-11-10 (4.3) Submission - Veteran Art Display - H. McAlister
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by J. Pribil
That the Civic Administration BE DIRECTED to report back to a future meeting of Community and Protective Services Committee with options for Veteran supported or created public art displays; which would include potential locations, partnerships and may include complete or partial sponsorship by the City of London;
it being noted that key stakeholders, including but not limited to the Royal Canadian Legion, and other local veteran organizations would be engaged regarding the type of display and where they would be most appropriate;
it being further noted that Western University, Museum London, Wolseley Barracks, and Parkwood Hospital may be suitable partners and hosts for public art displays.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
5. Deferred Matters/Additional Business
None.
6. Confidential
6.1 Solicitor-Client Privilege
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by P. Cuddy
That Committee rise and go into Committee, In Closed Session, for the purpose of considering the following:
A matter pertaining to advice on the Housing Collaboration Initiative that is subject to solicitor-client privilege, including communications necessary for that purpose.
Vote:
Yeas: H. McAlister P. Cuddy J. Pribil S. Trosow D. Ferreira
Motion Passed (5 to 0)
That Committee convenes In Closed Session, from 3:21 PM to 4:05 PM.
7. Adjournment
Moved by H. McAlister
Seconded by S. Trosow
That the meeting BE ADJOURNED.
Motion Passed
The meeting adjourned at 4:33 PM.
Full Transcript
Transcript provided by Lillian Skinner’s London Council Archive. Note: This is an automated speech-to-text transcript and may contain errors. Speaker names are not identified.
View full transcript (2 hours, 55 minutes)
[7:31] Okay, I will get this meeting to order. I’ll be opening the 17th meeting of the Community and Protective Services Committee. Please check the City website for additional meeting detail information. The City of London is situated on the traditional lands of the Anishnabek, Haudenosaunee, Lina Peiwok, and Adewandrin. We honor and respect the history, languages, and culture of their diverse indigenous people who call this territory home. The City of London is currently home to many First Nations, Métis, and Inuit today. As representatives of the people of the City of London, we are grateful to have the opportunity to work and live in this territory.
[8:10] City of London is committed to making every effort to provide alternate formats and communication supports for meetings upon request. To make a request specific to this meeting, please contact CPSC@london.ca or dial 519-661-2489 extension-2425. I’d like to welcome everybody in front of me, all staff, people in the gallery, people online who may be watching. And I’d like to recognize members of the committee that we have here.
[8:49] We have Councillor Hadley and Callister, my vice chair to my right, or ward 1. Councillor Jerry Preble to my right, ward 5, Councillor Peter Cuddy, ward 3, to my right. And Councillor Sam Trussell, ward 6, is online. Recognizing visiting members to my left, I have Councillor Anna Hopkins, ward 9, to my left and chambers. Councillor Susan Stevenson, to my right, ward 4, and Councillor Steve Hillier, ward 14 online. All right, so I’m going to look for any disclosures of pecuniary interest.
[9:25] See, none. All right, so before I go to the consent, I am going to look for a change of order motion. We have a confidential report for the Housing Collaborative Initiative, which I would like committee to hear before we do the public session. So just looking for a motion for that change of order, moved by Councillor Preble, looking for a seconder, seconder by Councillor Trussell. So we’ll vote on that. Councillor votes, yes. Councillor Preble voting yes, thank you.
[10:08] Closing the vote, the motion carries five to zero. Okay, thank you. I see Councillor Robin has joined us online as well. Okay, so for the consent items, I have two pull requests so far. That is 2.5, the blue box transition final year part B update, and item 2.98, the Housing Collaborative Initiative updated financials and project conclusion. So just looking for committee for any other pull requests. I have none looking for a motion to move.
[10:45] 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.6, 2.7, and 2.4, and 2.9. I’ll move those two. Okay, thank you. We’re just making sure that I got the pull requests correct.
[11:21] 2.5 is pulled, 2.9 is pulled. So the remainder is what I’m looking to move. So move by Councillor Cudi, seconded by Councillor Callister. Okay, looking for a speaker’s list for the items that are still as consent. So I’m going to go to members of the committee first.
[11:55] Actually, before I do that, I do actually have some intros that were requested by staff. So before we go to that, I have an intro for 2.3, the London’s Bicentennial 200th anniversary update, and I also have an intro from staff 2.6, the city’s response to MTO, annual electric scooter pilot extension. So I’m going to actually go to staff for 2.3 first, Miss Smith, just let me know when you’re ready. Thank you very much. And through the chair, I’m very excited to share with you that London’s preparing to commemorate its 200th anniversary of founding as a settlement in 1826.
[12:37] This will be a year-long series of events and activities throughout all of next year. So the report provided you today, share some plans on how we will be celebrating this anniversary throughout next year, both celebrations that are led by civic administration, celebrations that are led by the community, and of course, celebrations that we all collaborate on. So pending council meeting on November 26th, we have a Get Involved website. So Londoners and everyone is welcome to provide their input on the website, learn more about what will be happening in 2026 as we commemorate our 200th anniversary.
[13:17] And of course, if you have any ideas or suggestions on how you may wish London to celebrate its 200th, please don’t hesitate to reach out to myself or Miss Armistead. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Smith. And I will go to 2.6, the city’s response to MTO, annual electric skooter, electric kick-scooter pilot extension. I’ll go to Miss Chambers for that. Thank you, and through the chair. So this report is basically highlighting the fact that we want to extend the existing pilot program for another year. During this time, what we’re allowing are personal use of e-scooters to folks who are over the age of 16 years old, and those who wear helmets who are 16 and 17 years old. And so that will basically allow it to occur for another year. And we’ll present a lot more data and facts to everyone in March 2026 when we have the information available. And that’s kind of in line with the timing from the MTO.
[14:15] Just one thing we want to note as we’re approaching the holiday season, city comms, we’re going to be working on just kind of broadcasting out the messaging that these e-scooters are not suitable for those under 16 years old. They’re not illegal. In partnership with us, the police are actually have prepared a flyer and they’ve reached out to the school boards, both the public and Catholic school boards, to send out this flyer to parents. So very important as we year up for the holiday season that these are not suitable gifts for children. And so we’ll be echoing that messaging and we’re happy to hear the police is also working with us on this as well. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Chambers. Okay. Now I will go to members and committee first for anything that you’d like to comment questions for all the items that are still in the consent. And that is not including 2.5 and 2.8. So I’ll go to Councillor McCallister. Go ahead. Thank you through the chair just because we just finished talking about it. I’ll start with 2.6 in terms of the kick scooter pilot extension. I’m just wondering if by-law can maybe perhaps comment in terms of any of the stats we have seen to date. I just anecdotally from my area, I see a lot of people modifying scooters. I’m just curious what we’re seeing on the enforcement side.
[15:32] Thank you. I will go to Ms. Beffer. Thank you and through you, Chair. In relation to the modifications, we have to work very closely with our police partners. There are certain things that we have the ability to enforce and certain things that we don’t. And the modifications, particularly as it relates to speed, would be one of those areas that we would have to rely on our partners for enforcement. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. And just to follow up on that through the chair, sorry, in terms of what we’re seeing in the parks in particular, obviously recognizing LPS would have to be involved. But I do get a number of complaints of people, especially on the TVP, you know, again, modifications and causing issues on there. So just wondering again, have we seen any problems with that? Just recognizing in here that it does say once we hit a threshold that there perhaps might be a blitz, I’m just wondering where we’re at in terms of the numbers we’re seeing. Thank you. Go ahead. Thank you and through you. We are always willing to entertain what you’ve classified as a blitz. And I would say that, yes, we have seen some issues along the TVP. Those issues would arise from the same issues that we’ve just discussed in relation to excess speed and certainly aggressive driving. We can get into the parks and conduct education campaigns to discuss with folks that the manner in which they’re operating their vehicles does have an impact on other TVP users. But again, this would be a joint initiative. And certainly, we would work very closely with the police to ensure that we’re in the right locations at the right times to be able to have an impact on those that are actually in violation of our bylaws.
[17:19] Thank you. Go ahead, Councilor. Thank you. Through you. Again, just following up on that. So say with this pilot extension, I’m just hoping that, you know, even if we extend this at the end of this pilot, are we going to have a more fulsome report from bylaw, perhaps on, you know, potential amendments or in terms of how we currently deal with the scooters? Because I mean, I understand in terms of collecting the data, but at some point it would be helpful to know what we’re seeing and ensure that we have appropriate bylaws to deal with it. Recognizing a lot of cities are going through this. These scooters, I see in a number of cities dealing with issues related to that.
[18:01] I’m just wondering at what point in this process would we see any changes to bylaws? Thank you. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly, as we report out on the data in early 2026, if there are imminent changes related to the use that’s currently permitted in London, we’d be happy to recommend those at that time. And we are still following the Provincial Pilot Program to see what the ultimate legislation with respect to both scooters, share and personal UC scooters will be. We haven’t seen much from the province recently on that, but we are tracking it closely and will include any of those recommendations at that time as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[18:37] Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you. And so just to confirm through you, because I don’t want to obviously implement something on the province changes it, but are we just going to, in terms of the extensions, do we just keep extending until the province release something? Are we going to essentially reach a point where we’re like, no, our pilot has run out and like, I just, I don’t want to wait necessarily forever and just keep renewing a pilot if the province hasn’t indicated when they might wrap this up. So I’m not necessarily opposed to an extension, but I don’t want to keep extending if there’s no Provincial Guidelines. So I don’t know if there have been conversations today, but just wondering is the province given any indication as to when they might have something that we could work from? Thank you. I’ll go to Ms. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are expecting more information from the province in the new year and certainly will report back on any salient changes or recommendations from the Provincial Pilot Program. If there are changes required to London’s by-law based on local circumstances that do not contravene the permissions under the Provincial Pilot legislation, we would make those recommendations at that time. My preference, of course, would be to stay the course and ensure we’re aligned with the province and with other municipalities who’ve chosen this particular path with respect to east scooters. There is, of course, another entirely more complex stream with respect to scooter share. Thank you. Go ahead. Thank you for that. Switching years now, not on 2.6, but for 2.3. I’m curious with the bicentennial. I think it’s great, obviously, doing the get involved. Always appreciate the feedback from the public. I’m just wondering in terms of the celebrations we might see, is the intention to try to spread this out across the city?
[20:17] Maybe, I don’t know how far down the path we are in terms of planning, but I just want to ensure that the different parts of the city, there’s different celebrations going on, and it’s not just concentrated in one area. Thank you. Thank you and to the chair. Most definitely. Right now, it’s just at ideas, and that’s what it is. So Ms. Armistead has brought his talk to different service areas at the city, talk to some of our community partners, and just have begun that conversation. So we are looking to do things all throughout the city, some fun things happening on the TVP.
[20:56] So yes, this is citywide. Thank you. Go ahead, Councilor. Thank you and through you. And then just wondering, in terms of, are we just going to do the celebration through the existing budget, or will there be an ask down the road? Thank you. Go ahead, Ms. Smith. Thank you. My goal is to do it within the existing budget and leveraging things that we are already doing in 2026, and that we are able to do. And of course, in my area, we always look for sponsorships. Thank you. Go ahead, Councilor. That’s it? Okay. Looking for other questions, comments, members first. Councilor Perba, go ahead. Thank you very much. And I’ll start with our bicentennial celebrations, and that’s great to see it. My question is regarding January 30th, actually, is the D-Day. And when I look at the kind of what we are planning to do besides New Year’s, everything is after. Are there any plans actually to do something on January 30th? Thank you. I will go to Ms. Smith.
[21:58] Thank you, sir. I had to look at Ms. Armistead. I’m not yet, but we are still in those early stages. Thank you. Go ahead, Councilor. Thank you for that. And if it’s really, truly our actual date, I hope we will do something very, very special on that day. And I’m very glad to hear that we are going to maximize the sponsorship and call advertising promotions to stretch our dollar as far as we can. So thank you very much for that. And regarding the 2.6 regarding the scooters, Ms. Pfeffer, she mentioned about educational programs or educational initiatives. And I think that it will be truly very helpful because we do get on a regular basis asking these questions where allowed, how allowed, et cetera. So the educational component would be very beneficial.
[22:47] Thank you very much. I don’t have any more questions. Thank you. Okay. I have one visiting member, Councilor Raman, who’s already put her hand up for the speakers list, but I’m just going to canvas members first, just one last time to give you one final chance. Okay. I’m going to go to Councilor Raman first. Thank you. And through you, I’ll start with the e-scooter pilot extension. Just want to share concerns from my part of the city. I’ve had particular concerns over the summer months from folks living in Foxfield and White Hills, particularly around underage riders.
[23:29] And we did request enforcement. We had police out multiple times. And then concerns were also shared with bylaw. However, even though those concerns were shared, we still saw persistent issues into the fall. So just checking in through you to staff, what are the penalties if you are caught riding an e-scooter under the age of 16? Thank you. I will go to Miss Beffer. Just a second. Okay. Go ahead. Thank you. And through you, Chair. So being familiar with the concerns in this area specifically, but also in other areas, the way that our enforcement officers address complaints about those under the age of 16 is to attend the residents of that individual if they’re able to identify it. Generally speaking, conversations with parents really do solve the problem if we are able to obtain that information. Additionally, there would be penalties under the Highway Traffic Act in relation to the violation. But again, that would be issued by the London Police Service.
[24:48] So we can issue a small monetary penalty in certain circumstances in relations to violations with this bylaw. But we really do rely on the Highway Traffic Act and the authority within that and our police partners to implement those fines. Thank you, Miss Beffer. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you for that answer. Could you give me a little bit more information on the small amps and whether that amp is to the child or to the parents? Thank you, Councillor. Go ahead. I would actually, and through you, Chair, sorry, I would actually have to take that information away and look a little closer on in terms of who the amp would be issued to. We wouldn’t issue an amp to a person under the age of 16 though. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Yeah, thank you. That was my understanding as well. So if you are a community member with a concern about somebody riding an e-scooter dangerously in your area, the onus is on you to figure out where that person lives if they’re under the age of 16 and whether or not this is going to be enforced and by whom.
[25:59] And I think the onus and the responsibility is too high on the complainant. And I’ll be honest, what we were finding in my ward was that this wasn’t perhaps of the greatest importance to those that were doing enforcement. So I understand that this falls low on the priority list, but we saw some very reckless behavior. And so I’m just wondering, do we have the right remedies in place to address under age scooter use? And I think what I understand is that we are going to do more proactive enforcement. I’ve seen the social media posts, but I do still have concerns, and I’m not sure that extending this is helping to address the issue. I too would like to see us reshape urban mobility and do so in a way that allows for multiple modes. But I find this a little bit more challenging because there’s so many undefined fees and undefined ways to enforce this.
[27:07] So that’s my comment on e-scooters, but I also do have some comments on bicentennial. Thank you, Councillor. I am going to go back to Ms. Heffer. She, I believe, has an answer for you. Go ahead. Thank you, Chair, and through you. And while I agree that it is a very difficult threshold to meet for a resident to determine whether an individual is of a certain age, I always ask that once we receive the information, the investigation is conducted. So we would not expect a resident to be able to say whether an individual is 14 or 17.
[27:45] We really just rely on the public to be able to bring the information, the actionable information forward to us to allow for our team to do the work that they need to do. Unfortunately, we can’t be everywhere at all times and really do rely on the public to guide us to the areas that we need to respond to. And sometimes that would include a specific address to speak with the folks who reside at that home to determine whether someone is in violation or not. I can also say that we do, we have heard loud and clear that this is a priority for the public, and that is why we are working so closely with our police partners and with the lead and middle sex road safety committee to gear defined education in relation to this specific bylaw and this specific law. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you. And I appreciate the efforts that we are taking.
[28:41] However, as I said before, I think that the onus on the public is too high to find the address associated. These aren’t plated e-scooters. They are, you know, a neighbor having to ride around the blocks looking for an e-scooter and what house is going into in order for enforcement to happen. And I think that that’s too difficult to notice. Just back to the bicentennial, if I may. Thank you. Chair, thanks. So I will say on bicentennial, please to see this report coming forward. I have a bunch of things I would love to see us do as a city when it comes to bicentennial. And the problem for me is I do think we need to add extra budget. It’s not every year that you celebrate a birthday that is significant and I’m a big believer that you mark every milestone. So I will say, you know, Ms. Smith, if you came to to committee with a request for some additional spending, I think it would be seen favorably. But I can’t speak for committee, obviously. I know I would see it favorably because I do think it’s really important for us to really go all out in celebration. I would love to see us plant way more than 200 trees next year. That’s my goal. That’s what I’ll be working on and look forward to more events and suggestions from the public. Thank you, Councillor. I have Councillor Stevenson next.
[30:06] So go ahead. Thank you. I have a few questions on 2.9 service agreement for Gilles and Creek Housing Cooperative. Just a few questions. So it talks about a 20-year term and then we see the subsidy for five years. But I’m assuming that the subsidy will continue for the full 20. So I just wanted to confirm that. And that’s my first question. Thank you, Councillor, Mr. Felberg. Go ahead. Thank you. And through you, Mr. Chair. So we’ll review that subsidy every five years. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. So will that come back before committee and council every five years? Go ahead. Through you, Mr. Chair. So what we would do is through a multi-year budget, if we’re finding that we need additional funds, we would make a request through that process. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. So I’m hearing, though, that this will continue on. It just won’t come to council, but it’ll be reviewed by civic administration every five years.
[31:14] Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Felberg. Thank you. And through you, Mr. Chair. So in the recommendation does have a delegation of authority to the deputy city manager of housing community growth for us to make those minor amendments year over year. If we are looking to make significant changes to the budget outside of our existing operating subsidy amount, which is that $18 million, we would come through multi-year budget in order to do that. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you very much. And that kind of brings me to one of my things about this is in another section of this report around the housing collaborative initiative. We saw the corrections to policy regarding delegation to civic administration without report backs and without being provided what the amendments were. And I don’t see that built into this policy and recommendation. And I just wondered if staff are open to us putting that in. And if there’d be willingness to work with me on that between now and council. Thank you, Councillor. I will go to Mr. Felberg again.
[32:26] Through you, Mr. Chair. I’d be happy to meet with the Councillor and discuss what what she’s after and see what we can come up with. Thank you. Go ahead. Thank you. I’ll just clarify. It’s not really what I’m after. It’s right in the note that we got this morning and it’s part of the November report around recognizing that. So just to clarify the note for the housing collaborative initiative. Okay. We have to keep just keep because we pulled that that will be after the items for direction. So I just want to keep it tight to to these points right now. Go ahead. And I understand that. But the issue itself of the lack of reporting back and council being informed is right in the same staff report. So that’s why I just wanted to mention it.
[33:11] I also like, I’m glad happy to see that on this one, you know, the review has shown there’s good governance. But we did receive another one where the board was pretty much incapacitated. And that could potentially happen at any point throughout the 20 year term. So I’m assuming that there’ll be a check in on that every five years as well. So I wanted to confirm that. And I have a concern around the tenancy profile. So we’re talking about using the wait list system for potentially 21 of these units. And yet again in governance working group, we’re talking about these tenancy profile issues and the wear and tear that that’s been causing on the building. So I just wanted to, you know, two of those to go to staff in terms of how were we addressing that and will what we’re doing at governance working group apply to whatever is happening with these contracts as well. Thank you. I will go to Mr. Felbert for the governance working group question and the tenancy profile question. Thank you and through you, Mr. Chair. So I heard two questions. There was one about how the governance of the nonprofit will be monitored over the 20 year period. So that’s a key part of what we do as civic administration in our support of the social housing sector and the nonprofits. We will undertake operational reviews as part of that five year review. We are looking, we’ll be looking at building condition assessment at that time as well and coming up with a financial plan for the subsequent five years. So it’s absolutely part of something we would do and it’s covered through our agreement. With respect to the wait list, the social housing wait list is something that we work with every day through the through housing stability services and the housing access center. The tenancy profiles would be that based on that RGI. So it’s based on an income calculation that we’re working with.
[35:11] We do work with the providers to try and identify the tenants that they want to have in their building and we try and match to that so that they are able to succeed and able to progress and not continue to see the challenges that we’ve been seeing in the nonprofit sector. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you. So I’ve been getting phone calls from people who are having problems with condo boards and also with cooperative housing where boards are making decisions on large capital expenditures, particularly once some mortgage is paid off. So my understanding is prior to the mortgage being paid off, there was a lot of decision making in terms of dollar value because there were mortgage payments to make. But now once the mortgage payments are made and we’re providing, you know, by my calculations, you know, three and a half million dollars in capital reserve subsidies to a board that, you know, there isn’t really a lot of oversight on like a lot a lot can happen in five years. I was just wondering as we do more and more of these because I recognize that this is only one of a few that are coming. Is there any thought or like, is this how other cities do it? Is there thought to have representation on the board or to have, you know, a pool of money where people send in three quotes and we pay those rather than allowing them to self manage millions of dollars? Thank you. I will vote to Mr. Felberg.
[36:50] Go ahead. Through you, Mr. Chair, that’s a very good question, Councillor. One of the things that we are trying to do to improve board governance. So we’ve been working on creating a series of board training modules, which we are starting to deliver right now. So effectively, what they’re looking at is helping the board to understand some of their decision making requirements, some of their obligations under the Housing Services Act. And able to support them as they move into the future and help them determine where they’re, what their roles are. Through our, through our activities as the city and service manager, through those operational reviews and those capital, that capital planning, there’s still an obligation for them to report to us and give us information about how their performance is year over year. So there is an opportunity for us to check in with the different boards and some of that decision making on what that capital work is. With respect to the capital plans and some of the funding that they receive, we do through, we provide them capital funding through a program called Coachee, which is the Canada Ontario Community Housing Initiative. Through that, we actually have our own staff and municipal housing. They go out, they work with the provider, they assess the capital need that’s on that particular property, and they help work with them and project manage that project, not project manage, but help support them as they’re delivering that particular project.
[38:19] So there is an assessment of the scope of that work and what they can actually deliver in a particular year. So there’s quite a bit of work that’s done, and it’s fairly, fairly consistent across the province. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor, noting you have 45 seconds left. Yeah, I’ll just wrap up with that. I have concern over a board that, as I understand, it would be made up of tenants. Is that correct? The board would be made up of tenants. And so we’ve got people living in affordable housing and rent year to income, learning board governance and the governance of millions of dollars. That’s very different than what they were doing before, which was garb, you know, maintenance and just general repairs. There is an opportunity for corruption, and I just, I’m concerned about it. Thank you. Councillor, go to Mr. Felder. Go ahead.
[39:11] Thank you. Through you, Mr. Chair. So not all boards are made up of tenants. It’s co-op boards are typically made up of co-op members. They are also tenants that live in the particular property. There are many other boards in our nonprofit portfolio. So we have 63 nonprofits that we support outside of LNCH. There are a number of boards that have accountants, lawyers, architects and other professionals that are on those boards. But through that training, that’s an opportunity for us as a city to support those boards and improve the quality. We’ve also been working with some organizations to see if we can identify additional board members with some of those skill sets, like those professional skills that we are looking to bring into that board governance in order to improve the quality of governance across the sector. Thank you. Go ahead. 17 seconds. Are you done? Councillor? Okay. I have Councillor Hopkins next. Now, I just want to recognize Budget Chair Palosa, Councillor Frank and Deputy Mary Lewis. I’ve joined us online. I see Councillor Pribble has put your hand up for some more comments. Okay. Let me go to Councillor Hopkins. Go ahead.
[40:23] Thank you, Mr. Chair, for recognizing me. I do have two comments. I’ll just start off with 2.6, which is the electrical scooters. I, too, have heard concerns from residents in my ward, the concerns of safety and the way they drive. I really appreciate staff’s comments around the education piece and, in particular, the Board of Education. And it’s not so much reaching out to students as it is reaching out to parents, because I think there is a number of parents that do not realize that the age of 16 and below, you’re not allowed to drive a scooter, and I see many young people driving young scooters. That education piece is really important. The other safety issue that I see with scooters is the doubling up as well, creating more heaviness on that scooter, harder to control, harder to stop. That is another concern. We know we’ve seen unheard information from emergency hospitals that accidents with these scooters have gone up this year. I really applaud staff for that education piece, and I think it’s going to be very, very important as we go into another year with the pilot project, which I have concerns with.
[41:54] But I think it’s also important that we get the data and the information, and I know that’s coming back to us in March, and I’m looking forward to that before. I think we need that information. So that’s my comment on 2.6. On a happier note, 2.3, the bicentennial. I love a party. I think it’s going to be a great opportunity for London to celebrate the good things in our city. I want to thank staff for the work. I know you’ve been working on this for quite a while. I know there, I really love the logo, by the way, the 200, and having the forks of the Thames in a tree, I thought, that was very innovative of staff coming up with the logo. So just some comments and really looking forward to the celebrations. I hope there will be a lot. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor.
[42:50] Okay, Councillor Pribble, I have you back on the list you have. You’ve only used about a minute, so go ahead. Thank you. And I do have a follow-up, actually, for Mr. Feldberg regarding the boards. And I think that that’s a great initiative in terms of selection of the boards, their training modules, etc. But also the procedure with Coachee. But then especially if the mortgages are paid and certain capital like CapEx is approved by the board, is there currently or is there an opportunity after it goes through the processes, board Coachee, for our staff, for you to get involved potentially through you, Councillor, as well, if just in case these amounts or these initiatives could be, let’s say, stretched too far. Thank you, Councillor. Go ahead, Mr. Feldberg. And through you, Mr. Chair, just to clarify, so you’re asking if through the approval of the Coachee funding for a particular board, for a particular project, if we have a role in determining if the scope of that project is appropriate and if it’s not being overused or overspent, is that correct? That is correct.
[44:07] And my concern is, or no, I’m looking if there is an opportunity for us to review it or for staff, certainly at least the staff potentially bring it to our attention if these initiatives amounts are potentially stretched too far. Thank you. Go ahead. Thank you, and through you, Mr. Chair, that’s very helpful. Thank you. Yes, our staff are working hand-in-hand with the provider to identify the scope of the project, working with them on the cost of the project. We don’t actually provide the full value of the project. We provide it in segments or tranches over the course of the life of the project. The provider is also required to sign a Coachee agreement with us, which has been the template and the language has been provided by the province as it is a provincial agreement. And then it’s registered against that property, and there are certain obligations for them to maintain the nonprofit housing into the future.
[45:07] Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you very much. No more questions? Thank you. Okay. That exhausts my speaker’s lists for the consent items that have not been pulled. So I’m going to get one last call, members, visiting members. Oh, Councillor Palosa. Go ahead. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I realize you can’t see me unless I put my screen on. Thank you for recognizing me as a visiting Councillor to this committee. I would say more of a comment to staff in regards on page 48, which is the Bicentennial celebration. I appreciate that we actually recognize dish consuming in all the languages. Usually we just hear the one, at least when I’m out, that’s what I normally hear. I would know it would be more of a joint venture. I would say just a comment. I made this comment. The tourism board as well, just Scott McFadden of the airport security was not there. When we were in Ottawa, I’m being greeted by their elders. They made notes of how important the airport terminal is upon landing to have an indigenous presence. They are recognizing the lands that we’re on and realizing we’re looking at doing this celebration, just leaving that feedback there. Perhaps this would be a good opportunity to reach out and do those partnerships, realizing that space too, as we welcome visitors to the territory. Thank you. Thank you. And I see nodding here from Miss Smith. Any other comments, questions online in chambers visiting or members?
[46:33] Okay. Let’s call the question. Processo votes, yes. Seeing the vote, the motion carries five to zero. Okay. I’m going to just give, we have one item for scheduled items. I’m just going to give Mr. Hall a chance to get prepared because we have a presentation. So just bear with us for a minute or two. Mr. Hall, we’re ready when you are. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for having me.
[47:28] My name is Daniel Hall. I’m the manager of active transportation, and I’d like to acknowledge the hard work of my colleague, Kalud Abdulhamid, on this project that I’m presenting to you today. So the city is committed to maintaining strong and healthy communities through safe and accessible infrastructure like sidewalks. This is something that has been emphasized through multiple council policies dating back to the early 2000s. A big one of those is the London Plan, which sets out a vision for the city over the next several decades. London Plan Mobility Policy 349 requires that sidewalks be built on both sides of most streets with very few exceptions. Additionally, Council’s strategic plan speaks to maximizing user safety for all modes of transportation and increasing access to sustainable mobility options. These policies aim to improve connectivity and accessibility in legacy neighborhoods that were built with sidewalks. But what we’ve heard is that this blanket approach is not the right fit. Residents would like a more deliberate strategic approach to adding sidewalks and established neighborhoods, one that acknowledges the context and function of each street. The neighborhood connectivity plan process aims to consider the whole community and recommend sidewalks that will offer the greatest benefit without automatically assuming sidewalks on every street. This process was initiated in 2022 when Council directed civic administration to prepare an NCP for 20 legacy areas in the city. The Lambeth area that we’re talking about today is number seven of those 20. The Lambeth neighborhood is in southwest London and was in an independent village until it was annexed by the city of London in 1993. While it has grown and urbanized over time, Lambeth continues to maintain a strong sense of community identity and small town character within the larger city context. The area is home to around 4,200 residents with a demographic profile that reflects an older population compared to the city wide average.
[49:38] The neighborhood includes two major road corridors, Colonel Talbot Road extending north south, and Longwoods, Maine, and Warren Cliff extending east and west. The street network within the neighborhood includes areas with traditional grid layout, north of Sunray Avenue, and a curvilinear layout south of Sunray Avenue. The area also has Lambeth Public School, private elementary school, and several local parks and connecting trails. The map on the screen shows the review area with a red boundary and the existing sidewalks are represented by orange lines. It also highlights the location of the Lambeth seniors housing, the large community supporting people with intellectual disabilities, and the Ashwood Manor retirement home. The existing sidewalks in orange are focused on the arterial and connector roads and some in the north part of the community.
[50:29] The majority of streets south of Maine Street do not currently have sidewalks. But before I summarize the plan recommendations, I want to thank all the residents that participated in NCP engagement, whether in person, through phone calls or online. Their insight into their community greatly informed the recommendations we’ve brought forward today for council consideration. The engagement process concludes with the public participation meeting to give council members an opportunity to hear directly from residents. The NCP for Lambeth are the NCP recommendations focused on community feedback, pedestrian destinations, and desire lines while also considering available neighborhood data, complete street guidelines, and the city’s anti-racism anti-oppression framework.
[51:19] At the same time, the NCP recognizes the clear feedback to reduce impacts to trees, driveways, and landscaping, and recommends exemptions to mobility policy 349 for low traffic streets, crescents, and courts with limited pedestrian destinations. In total, sidewalks are recommended for 16 streets in the Lambeth neighborhood to be built at the time of street reconstruction or in the case of priority connections through the new sidewalk program. Three sidewalk connections are planned to be constructed within the next five years. Alternatively, an exemption to mobility policy 349 is recommended for 18 streets, and now a little context to the NCP sidewalk recommendations for Lambeth.
[52:02] The map in front of you shows where new sidewalks are recommended in red, purple, or black based on the planned timeline for implementation. Red sidewalks are planned for the next five years, purple sidewalks are planned for six to 10 years away, and finally, black sidewalks are planned to be 10 or more years away. I’ll provide a brief description of the recommendations starting with the area north of Main Street. This area near Lambeth Public School was the most common area we heard feedback about. Many parents and students cited the desire to walk on a completed sidewalk network when getting to and from school instead of avoiding park cars on the road.
[52:43] Sidewalks have been recommended on South Rutledge Road, James Street, and Beatty Street to mostly complete the sidewalk network in this area and improve connectivity and safety for students, parents, and residents. Beatty Street is proposed to have both sidewalks built through the new sidewalk program within the next five years. The next group of sidewalks between Main Street and Sunray Avenue received comments citing older adults walking on the street, the desire to see sidewalks on the bus route on Sunray Avenue, and to see sidewalk connections to Ralph Hamlin Park to the two seniors homes in the neighborhood and to the large community located at Sunray and Colonel Talbot. This area is the oldest area in Lambeth. It forms part of the grid layout and has wide roads and large front lawns. Sidewalks are recommended on one side of most streets to be completed when the street is reconstructed or earlier if prioritized through the new sidewalk program. Finally, the area south of Sunray Avenue consists of homes on large lots and a curvilinear street pattern. Traffic volumes are low on the local streets and there are few pedestrian destinations within an acceptable walking distance. As such, the sidewalk recommendations are intended to form a limited sidewalk network connecting existing walkways and serving the one neighborhood connector that experiences more traffic and accesses Colonel Talbot Road. Sidewalks are recommended on one side of the street on Monterey Crescent, La Stradella Gate, and Outer Drive.
[54:14] A very short section of Southland Drive is recommended to have a sidewalk on both sides to connect residents to the businesses at Colonel Talbot Road and to improve safety with the higher vehicle volumes on this section. Most of these sidewalks will only be implemented when the street is reconstructed. In addition to sidewalks, the NCP recommends an improving and existing pedestrian crossing and reviewing two other locations for a potential pedestrian crossing in the future. With that brief summary, I will turn the meeting back to the chair to open the public participation meeting. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Hall, for that excellent presentation. Okay. There is a PPM schedule, so I’m going to need a motion to open that.
[54:55] Moved by Councillor McAllister, seconded by Councillor Cudi. Let’s put that into the vote. The motion carries five to zero. Okay. I’m looking for anybody in chambers who would like to speak to this and anybody online. I have one walking up, Mr. Wallace. Okay. Just a second. Just a second. Okay, Mr. Wallace, you got five minutes. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m not just a time arrival here. I was just at an important meeting in St. Thomas and made it here in time. It’s Mike Wallace representing LDI and the London Development Institute here today. We have absolutely no issue with what the report that’s in front of you going forward on the land with the connections we do want to be on the record of noting that there are 18 exemptions from the London Plan and Policy 349. And as it stated, no sidewalks are recommended on 18 streets, crescents and courts with low traffic volumes and limited pedestrian connections. And that is the same argument that we would like to make that a review of the London Plan on this policy in particular.
[56:26] These are for, you’re making the exemptions for established neighborhoods. I don’t know why they’re required in new neighborhoods. So we think the sidewalk issue is something that we are very happy to see the staff highlight in this report. And we look forward to discussing this section of the London Plan further. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Wallace. Okay, looking for anybody else in chambers or online? We have no one online. So I’m going to make one last call for anybody in chambers. Okay, looking for a motion to close a PPM. We’ll buy a council to my councilor seconded by a councilor. Cutty. Let’s vote. Yes, I’m going to vote. The motion carries five to zero. Okay, looking to members of committee for a motion moved by councilor that’s the staff report seconded by councilor Pribble. Okay, looking for a speaker’s list.
[57:35] Members first. Okay, I’m going to visiting members next. Councilor Hopkins, go ahead. Thank you again, Mr. Chair for recognizing me and through you to staff. I want to thank staff for the extensive engagement that we’ve had for the past year with the public. You can see here this afternoon, there’s not too many people here, but there has been a lot of input on this project and staff have been very engaged, not only with the public and the public with staff, but also with me. So many thanks for that. I want to also maybe make a comment around the this is just not sidewalks, but it’s also underlining the importance of a PXO over at Campbell and James and also continuing to do a tree count or a tree count a account for stop sign at Campbell and Dennis and also doing looking at traffic calming over at Hamlin. These things are also important to create safety in the neighborhoods and and it’s just not the sidewalks that create the safety but looking at everything. It was quite interesting reading this report because I sort of confirmed what I see in Lambeth. We are an aging population as well. We have a number of nursing homes and we also have large there which is an intellectual disability center and I on on Sunray. I do have a couple questions. The first one through you, Mr. Chair, would be around knowing that safety on the streets, the connectivity of these sidewalks and the aging population. I want to know why Marianna was not looked at in the one to five years. I know it’s going to be looked at from six to ten.
[59:45] It could be a possible development application, but want to get staff’s comments around why that wasn’t put forward sooner than later. Thank you, Councillor. I’ll go to Mr. Hall. Go ahead. Yeah, thank you for the question and through the chair. Marianna, when we look at all our sidewalks and our timing, we first look at other infrastructure projects that are happening. So one of the streets to the south, I believe Dennis, is up for an infrastructure project already. So that’s why it qualified for this sort of shorter timeline. It has a very similar context to Marianna. So we look at an evaluation for all of our requested sidewalks through the new sidewalk program and it includes proximity to transit, to schools, to parks, traffic volume, and current, like if there’s a sidewalk already or not in terms of scoring, and we let that help dictate the timeline. So if it qualifies for a priority through that new sidewalk program, we sort of align the timing with the other streets within that program, so not just within Lambeth, but citywide, and where they fall is sort of why we put the six to ten for Marianna. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. And maybe a follow-up through you, Mr. Chair, on that. Do we know, and without, is it safe to assume that these projects on these streets, and Dennis in particular, would that be a one-year project?
[1:01:18] How do these projects normally last when it comes to sidewalks? Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Hall. Through the chair, if it’s a dedicated sidewalk project, they can happen very quickly, anywhere from three to six weeks, I would say, in and out. If it’s a complete infrastructure renewal project where they’re rebuilding the street, you know, curbs, sewers, water main, that can last the entire construction season. But when their sidewalk retrofits, they are quick projects. Thank you. Go ahead. And well as question, when it comes to sidewalk projects, and you did mention some have curbs, sometimes they don’t, but do we, we really don’t know that now? Does that go through a process? Once the sidewalk has been approved, then we look at, does it create neat gutters? And I guess, does it need lighting as well? Just better understanding on the process. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead. Through the chair, the sidewalk project, we always have sort of a stage two after the NCP. So when it comes time for implementation, we like to meet with the community on street and to discuss their priorities for their neighborhood. So sometimes it’s preserving the trees that whenever we can do to preserve the trees, or maybe it’s driveways are short and they want to make sure, you know, the sidewalks not impacting driveways to the same extent. So we always do that consultation, a second round of consultation at the time of implementation to hear the community values. And we try and do our best in the design process to achieve what the community values, while still incorporating a sidewalk.
[1:02:58] In terms of the sort of different options, sometimes we’re in the boulevard behind with a grass boulevard between the road and the sidewalk. Sometimes we’re right against the road, and sometimes we’ve narrowed the road as well to put the sidewalk within it. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Yeah, no, thank you for that. And look forward to further conversations then with with the neighbourhood as these projects go forward. Thank you. Thank you. I have Councillor Trusso next. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you very much. And through the chair, based on my experiences in my ward, I do have a growing set of concerns for whenever these infrastructure projects take place. So I want to I just I just want to throw out a couple of things that I think are very important to consider at the beginning. And my intention here is to not, you know, replace some of the problems I’ve had, but to sort of create a much smoother and more pleasant experience for the residents of this neighbourhood. So question question number one, are there going to be provisions written into the contracts with contractors to ensure things like cleanliness, timeliness, not leaving things around, generally making a mess. What kind of quality control are we writing into our contracts with with with contractors on these infrastructure projects?
[1:04:40] Thank you, Councillor. I’ll go to Ms. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair. With respect to our contracts and requirements from contractors, it varies depending on the nature of the contract. Certainly we can and do often review our common language with our colleagues in purchasing. That said, nothing’s free. So if we’re expecting different levels of service, then we potentially are looking at a variation from lowest qualified bid in the future. And right now that is not the way our purchasing bylaw is established. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor.
[1:05:17] Okay. Well, maybe this is a longer term question then, but I’m very dissatisfied with the quality control that I’ve seen, at least in my area. And this is maybe something we need to look at on the new committee in the future. My second question deals specifically with trees. And I want to make sure that if trees are going to be cut down, that they’re identified right away, and that there is a good explanation as to why it’s necessary to remove a tree. In the past, this has been the cause for a lot of concern. And the flip side of this is if trees are going to be removed, what are the replacement policies? And what can we do to make sure that the replacements happen in a timely way? And again, this is based on some of the concerns that I have based on projects in my own area. But I think it’s a reasonable question to ask.
[1:06:13] Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It’s actually a result of a project in the Council’s area that we looked at how we’re managing our tree notification process for work on residential streets. Previously, we’d let a homeowner know if their tree was to be removed, but we weren’t actually showing the street that the extent of tree changes that would be occurring is on the entire project. So now we have a policy where we ensure that that information is available to preceding fall, and that is communicated to the entire street. We arrange for a walkthrough with our forestry staff if required, if there is significant tree impact, and certainly work with the tree protection plan at our forestry staff to try to retain as many trees as we can through both design and construction methodology. With respect to replacement, it’s always our hope to plant as quickly as we can, but there is a window in which that we are likely to be successful. And so that means making sure we either hit a fall or spring planting deadline. We are a little behind this year. We are in the process of changing vendors, unfortunately. We’re in the process of onboarding a new tree vendor for our planting project, and we hope to have them on and we’ll be prioritizing catching up on any streets that were not completed in the fall planting season in the spring. Thank you.
[1:07:28] Thank you very much, and last point, I’ll be consulting with the word counselor just to share some of my additional thoughts and concerns based on my experience. Thank you very much. Thank you, counselor. Okay, I have no one on the speaker’s list. Last call. Okay, let’s vote on that. Also, votes, yes, closing the vote. The motion carries five to zero. All right, that concludes the schedule items. We have items for direction. I have three scheduled, three motions from Councilor McAllister, and then the one-fold item for the blue box intro at the end. So I am going to look to Council McAllister for a motion. Thank you, and through the chair, so just to start going into my order here, I would like to put my motion on the floor regarding the residential dumpsters, and then we can go from there and have that conversation.
[1:08:36] I’m looking for a seconder. Okay, that motion has been moved. I am looking for a seconder. Councilor Pribble seconded. All right, looking for speaker’s list to this one. I am going to start with Council McAllister first. Go ahead. Thank you, and through the chair. I appreciate the committee hearing this. I had a few things on the agenda for today, but this is one, particularly through the summer that I heard a lot about, and so I’m looking for support in terms of getting a by-law to look into this a bit more, especially on the property standard side, particularly rough summer in terms of what we were seeing with residential dumpsters, a lot of rats, not a deal for anybody, but I would like to just hand this over to staff, maybe for some introductory comments, in terms of what they’re seeing and any feedback they might have in terms of the residential dumpsters. Thank you, Councillor. I believe Mr. Mathers may have some comments, or whoever you may direct, Ms. Pfeffer. Go ahead.
[1:09:41] Thank you, and through you, Chair. So we have had a few complaints over the course of the last few years, in terms of the maintenance of the actual bins, and we do respond relatively reactively in relation to these complaints. We will, on occasion, be able to proactively investigate these. Certainly in high visibility areas, our law enforcement officers do make efforts to address any obvious violations that they see. In looking to improve upon the by-law, we could definitely take your suggestions away and come back with a report in the future.
[1:10:22] Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you, and through the chair. Appreciate those comments. I do think this warrants further investigation. One of the things I’ve seen in terms of the sites I visited, unfortunately, it’s a bit of a double whammy. What we’re seeing is quantity of garbage, not being secured properly. That’s a bit of a maintenance issue. But then there’s also an illegal dumping component, which I noticed through the summer as well. What we’re seeing in certain areas, in my ward, I don’t know if this applies to other folks, but what we’re seeing is rather than people perhaps buying the tags, if they live in a neighborhood where there’s a large, say, townhouse complex, high-rise, we are seeing people who don’t live on site dumping their garbage as well, which is an issue. Some residents go as far as going through the garbage to find the names on envelopes. I’ve got some interesting reports that I’ve shared with by-law in terms of illegal dumping, but I do think this warrants further investigation. I’m not sure it grabs downtown. You have the same issues, Councillor Ferrer, or some of the other Councillors, but this is something that I have definitely seen in my area, and I think it definitely needs to be investigated further. But I’m happy to hear from my colleagues.
[1:11:34] I’ll leave my introductory comments there, but yeah, I think this is something we need to look at and come back with suggestions to improve the by-law. Thank you, Councillor. Looking for Councillor Preble, go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair, to the staff. No doubt, we certainly have the issues with this, I’m particularly maintained, not just residential, but even the commercial areas, plaza zones. But my question is, what do we have actually currently? Because there are some plazas and some residential areas that are on a regular basis overflowing, and there is garbage all up around. What are our current by-laws? Would they allow us to do, and what kind of actions do we take if this is on a continued basis? Thank you, Ms. Ferrer, go ahead.
[1:12:24] Thank you, and through you, we always try for compliance initially, and so we’ll work with property owners to ensure their understanding of the by-law and the requirements that they have to follow in terms of keeping the property clean and clear of debris. If we’re seeing on a consistent basis that the bins are overflowing and not being closed because of the fact that they’re overflowing, there’s an issue of capacity there, and certainly we would work with them to try to encourage increased capacity for garbage storage. We don’t have the ability to enforce or require them to increase their capacity, but we do have the ability to certainly clean up if they aren’t willing to do so. So it’s really important that our team works closely with property owners, but that’s something that we could look at in terms of a requirement to have a specific capacity based on the density. Thank you, Councillor, go ahead.
[1:13:19] Thank you very much, and as you stated, it’s something that we could look into. Please do. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. I have Councillor Trussell. Next, go ahead, Councillor. Thank you very much, and through the chair, I notice a lot of problems. I notice them in my ward, and I notice them in the Gainesboro area. A lot of the problems that I notice with overflowing bins are owned properties that are owned and operated by London Middlesex Community Housing, and I want to make sure that they would be part of this review, and they’re not getting any kind of special exemption. My other, I’ll just do these both. My other suggestion is since this is very related to the yard by-law, and since the Environmental Stewardship Committee Advisory Committee has done a lot of work on this in the past, I’m thinking it might be a good idea to get their input in this. I don’t know if we need a motion to refer it to such an advisory committee, but I think it would be a good idea for us to recognize that the people on that advisory committee have some special expertise and experience looking at these issues, so I would like to see them in the loop, and I think that that could be of assistance to our staff. Thank you. Thank you. Are you asking just to go back to you, Councillor, you’re requesting to see if we can put the community advisory committee as an advisory role for this motion, or just to bring them into the loop? Yeah, I’m not sure if it’s necessary to have a motion. I think that this would be something that they could take up anyway, but if people feel that they need a special invitation to take this up, then I’d like it in the motion. I’m very happy to just do this informally, but I’ll leave it to the chair or the clerk or others, but I just think it’s very important that we get their input. All right, I’m going to go to staff to see if we can include the community advisory committee, and if they need a motion for it, just for that question to you. Okay, the clerk is telling me we don’t need a motion for that, but you guys can just link it in. Okay, other, sorry, Councillor, I believe you have some time left. Just going back to you to see if you have anything else.
[1:15:49] Okay, none. Okay, looking for other speakers, questions, comments. Okay, let’s call the question. So votes, yes. Let’s zoom the vote. The motion carries five to zero. Thank you. Okay, we have another item. This is 4.2 on items for direction. This is another motion by Councillor McAllister. It’s regarding the garbage along the Highbury Avenue South corridor between Hamilton Road and Bradley Avenue. I will hand it over to you, Councillor, to put your motion down. Thank you. And the motion is contained with my correspondence, and I will move that. Okay, let’s move. Looking for a seconder, seconded by Councillor Cuddy.
[1:16:40] All right, Councillor, I’ll go back to you. Thank you and through the chair. Appreciate, just prior to this meeting this year, thank you for letting me know that we should be able to increase our frequency in terms of doing a cleanup twice a year, so that is great to hear. So in terms of this, I do have to make some amendments, just recognizing I got this information, really appreciate that staff came back with that. I just want to quickly speak to why I brought this forward. I will say I drive along this stretch all the time, and I feel the pain of the community as well. This is a gateway to our city, and the garbage along there is just awful. I mean, just last week, I’m constantly, there’s three mattresses that just drive me crazy that I see people not securing their loads, garbage being thrown out as people enter the city, things like this are wrong, and I hear constantly from the community that we need to do something.
[1:17:40] Appreciate that we can do more cleanups. Recognizing the work that goes into these cleanups, we have to shut down the road. It takes a lot of city staff to mobilize and to plan, so that is greatly appreciated when we do those cleanups, because I hear this constantly from the community. Just in terms of the changes, so in terms of A, I do want the report back still, I would like enforcement, I would like bylaw to look into this to see if there’s anything that we could do in terms of, once again, issues with the garbage along there. Recognizing, obviously, there’s going to have to be some coordination, obviously, with police as well, in terms of perhaps monitoring this more, so I would like to change the language in terms of Pacific administration report back with potential enforcement options, removing the scheduled cleanups as staff have indicated that that doesn’t need to be included, and then in part B, I would also like, in terms of what I’ve requested from the mayor, I don’t want to limit this just to St. Thomas, but I’d also like the warden of Elkin County included if those two things could be made as adjustments, and so I will put those forward as amendments. Okay, just give me a second for the clerks to get that, and then I’m going to, maybe I could look to your seconder and maybe we wouldn’t need an amendment, but just give me a second. Let’s just get that. Okay, thank you, counselor. We have that language. We’re just going to read it out. The clerk has confirmed this is an amendment, so I’m going to need a seconder for this, but let’s just read it out one more time so members can hear.
[1:20:17] So just give us a second, and then I’ll have the clerk read it out. Okay, I can just read it out. So A would be changed from the Pacific administration to be directed to report back to a future meeting of the community and protective services with potential enforcement options for garbage, along a hybrid south between Hamilton Road and Bradley, including associated operational costs, resource requirements, and estimated costs. And B would be changed that the mayor be requested to engage with the mayor of St. Thomas and the word of Elkin County regarding a potential joint communication campaign to remind residents and commercial operators to properly secure their loans while traveling on area roads, particularly along Ivory Avenue, South Corridor.
[1:21:02] Thank you. Okay, I’m looking for a seconder for the amendment. Question, Chair. I don’t have that up on my screen yet, but it says so with potential enforcement options. Is that right, counselor? It’s correct. It’s in eScribe now if you refresh your screen. Okay, so counselor cutting is willing to second that amendment, correct? Okay, and I do have the deputy mayor and counselor trussle on the speaker’s list, not for the amendments. They’re just confirming I’m going to keep you for the main. And if you do, you can take your hands down because I have I have you on the list. But if you want to speak to this amendment, just put your hands back up. So I see the deputy mayor has still has his hand up. So I’m going to consider that for this amendment. You can go ahead, counselor, McCallis. Thank you through the chair. Just on the amendment, I still think there’s value in terms of looking at the enforcement side and just so staff are aware in terms of what I’m thinking with this.
[1:22:08] Obviously, there needs to be some coordination with LPS. It would be great if we could increase some signage. I don’t know if anything could be done with cameras, but I would like that explore just to see if there is any potential to do anything with cameras. This is nothing to do with speeding. I’m just particularly concerned with the volume of trucks and traffic and all this debris flying off of these things. If we have any way of recording anything, this is a legal dumping. I’m not sure if it qualifies as that, but it is particularly problematic along this stretch. In terms of recognizing a lot of the commuter traffic, it’s not exclusively St. Thomas. We do see a large volume, especially with people working in London coming from the south.
[1:22:50] Elgin County should be included in that as well. What I’ve noticed, particularly with the volume of traffic as Wellington has so much construction, the last few years have been particularly bad in terms of just the volume we’re seeing. I think as part of that, a lot of traffic in terms of going to the dumps has also kind of been redirected that route as well. But I do think it warrants larger discussion, not just with St. Thomas, but Elgin as well, so just some rationale there for my amendments. Thank you, Councillor. I have Councillor Per beau, then Deputy Mayor Lewis next. So go ahead, Councillor. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Question to the staff. I’m actually disappointed that we are just taking an aid to enforcement and not schedules as well.
[1:23:33] Did we ever look into the private sector? Like, for example, Miller Waste. If a private sector would be able to do it, then compare the costs internally, externally. And also private sector, they usually have different regulations. So is it potentially that if the private sector does it, we could do to clean up without closing this part of hybrid? Can you please comment on those points? Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. I would say let’s try to keep it to the amendment as close as I can, but I am going to go to staff for this one. Thank you, Mr. Chair. With respect to contracting out to the work of cleaning up roadsides that would create a situation which require further consideration under our collective agreement with QP Local 107. The safety concerns that are raised with respect to working on a high-speed road such as this road would apply regardless of the sector. There is no special consideration that the private sector can work on high-speed roads without following the requirements of a safe work zone procedure relative to our own staff.
[1:24:38] So the challenge is not so much resourcing with the fact that it requires a full-day closure in order to do this work. So if we had additional funding, we still would not close this once a month because of the impact on a very significant artery. The best thing I think we can be doing is looking for ways to do some spot cleanup where possible. It is possible to go in and out potentially with a crash truck and do some very limited pickup of large items like mattresses. And the big thing is to look to our neighbors and friends and family and ensure that we are making sure our loads are secured and that we are not using these roads as a place to dispose of household waste.
[1:25:15] Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you. And the last follow-up then would be the cost if we were to look at did we ever compare if we were to do it outsource it and look at how much it costs when we do it internally. Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Chair. No, Mr. Chair, we have not investigated that because there’s no direct cost to us doing it currently. It is done with our own resources and we can accommodate within our staffing the challenge is pulling everybody off of other beats and closing the street for a day or two in order to conduct the mowing maintenance cleanup debris removal. So we’ve not costed out our internal costs. It’s not really the cost that’s motivating the doing it once a year and potentially not doing it twice a year. It really is about the impact on a high-speed high-volume roadway and the need for a full closure. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor Purple. Thank you. No more questions. Thank you. I have Deputy Mayor Lewis. Next, go ahead. Yeah, thank you, Chair. So I appreciate the comment about the enforcement piece. I know having spoken to Mr. Kautolik before, he retired that there were sometimes enforcement matters taken up when dumping was identified as a source of the garbage. But I know that that can be difficult to even tie to an individual, let alone follow through successfully with fines. So while I support the enforcement piece to the extent it can be done, to me, the bigger piece here is the scheduling.
[1:26:48] And so I heard what Ms. Cher was saying. I want to come back to another question, though, because to me, the scheduling piece that was in the initial amendment is actually more important to me than the enforcement piece, which is to make sure that this is getting done at least twice a year. I know we are currently limited by our union contract with regard to seasonal workers. I believe it’s 26 weeks is the maximum that they can work for us. And so from a scheduling perspective, knowing that we’re not onboarding quite a few of them until the end of April, beginning of May, it’s often June before we’re getting to a first cleaning. So I know Councillor McAllister, and this comes to the main motion because Councillor McAllister has sort of amended the scheduling piece. But I want to hear from Ms. Cher what the scheduling commitment is going to be, because if the person’s not till June, I don’t see us doing one, even if we’re properly resourced, and even if we don’t have a staffing issue in December, weather conditions, road safety conditions, at that time of year, the amount of accumulated, well, what I’m going to call swampyness in the bitches makes it an even less safe work environment. So I am wondering if Ms.
[1:28:16] Cher can comment on what the expectations of scheduling can be like moving forward, because I’m not comfortable entirely with the amendment turning to just enforcement and and losing the scheduling piece. Thank you, Deputy Mayor. I’ll go to Ms. Cher for the scheduling commitment. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Certainly with respect to scheduling, it is challenging for a couple of reasons noted by the Deputy Mayor. It is a roadside that is a rural cross-section, so we do have a ditch system there, which when very wet is very difficult to maintain safely with equipment or with staff. That said, we don’t necessarily need temps to be able to do this work. We do have year-round staff who do maintenance for both parks and for roadways. So our intent is to try to get out as soon as conditions are good in the spring, and then, and if we’re going to add a second fall cleanup, we would want to push that as far away from the original cleanup so that we’re spacing that out and putting things to ban for the winter in the best condition possible.
[1:29:10] It is dependent on availability of labor. On other detours and closures, we have scheduled this work of the past and had to change it because we had a railway closure that was suddenly announced, for example, and that’s beyond our control. I’m happy to include that information in the report. If that needs to be re-added into recommendation A, that’s fine. If not, we can commit to including some information around scheduling and some spot cleaning options as well as the enforcement information. Thank you. Go ahead, Deputy Mayor. Okay, thank you. I do appreciate that. I heard Ms. Chair indicate that they could simply include that in the report, that they don’t need it necessarily in the language of the motion. I’m happy to take her word for that. We can certainly follow up afterwards. I do want to recognize that there is a challenge with timing. I fully know that. For me, we do need to clean up in the fall, particularly after the mass inflow of students that happens in late August, early September. Unfortunately, that’s the time when things fall off the back trucks. That’s the time when other students, in some cases, are moving out and things get discarded intentionally or unintentionally along the side of the road. So I really think we have to focus particularly around those student move in and move out periods at the end of the school year in late April, beginning of May and in perhaps the end of September, beginning of October, but before the snow falls so that we are hitting what in my experience over the last seven years has been the two highest volume times of the year where we get complaints as those peaks sort of move in and move out periods. So hearing this Chair’s answer, I’m happy to follow up with her offline in a little more detail. I think this is very necessary. I hear about this every year. I’ve heard about it every year for the last seven years. Residents are not feeling like we are doing enough to keep the city looking good at a primary entrance. And so I do appreciate Councilor McAllister bringing this forward. And so I’ll end my comments at that for now, Mr. Chair.
[1:31:26] Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Okay, I got Councilor McAllister and Councillor Trussell. So go ahead, Councillor, how much time does Council McAllister have? All right, you have just under four minutes. Go ahead. Thank you and through the Chair, the amendment to the amendment, just hearing the feedback, I do think it’s still important to keep the potential options for two scheduled cleanups, just recognizing that additional information. Just as Mr. Chair said, I would like that still included in the report, recognizing that staff have said that they can do two, but I would like that language explicitly added in. Okay, give us a second. So an amendment to the amendment with the addition of a potential options for two scheduled cleanups. I have it moved by Councillor McAllister, seconded by Councillor Cuddy. I’ll move the second that, as long as this Councillor McAllister is the last amendment. Procedurally, this has to be the last amendment. Okay, just a second. Okay, I have Councillor Trussell for the amendment. So I’m going to hold you for the amendment. And I also have Deputy Mayor Lewis and Councillor Trussell for the main motion as amended. Now I am going to start a new speaker’s list right now. So Councillor Trussell, your hand is up. If you want to speak to the amendment to the amendment, you can do that now. So your hand is down. Thank you, Chair, and please do not hesitate to cut me off if I’m straying from the amendment to the amendment.
[1:33:32] My concern about this whole thing is that we have a mess all over the city. I mean, there are problems with inadequate pickup of the dumping throughout the city. It’s not just highberry. And my concern would be if we add additional resources to highberry and say we’re going to be doing additional cleanups, isn’t that just inviting people who want to do dumping to just take it over to highberry? I’m very concerned about that. So I need a little bit more help in terms of what I need to support these amendments in this motion. By the way, I’m totally in favor of increasing the pickups and increasing the budget. But isn’t that something we should refer to a budget consideration? Because there are going to be cost implications.
[1:34:27] Thank you, Councillor. I believe that would be questions that could be answered by members who have moved. I could go to Mashaire as well. Or? I can certainly can start. And if I’m not preempting Councillor McCallister and Councillor Cuddy’s a mover and seconder. The reason that we don’t clean up highberry on demand as we would on other streets is that it needs to be closed for a cleanup. So it is scheduled for one cleanup a year typically in late spring. It’s not a matter of financial resources that constrains us from doing it when we get requests. It’s the need to close the road and redeploy resources. Most of our arterial streets, whether it’s Richmond, Wellington, Sunnydale, when we have concerns brought forward, we’re able to address those in a more timely way through our trucks that are out picking up things like mattresses. But unfortunately on these high speed roads, it is really a matter of safety and the need to close it. So we won’t be looking for additional funding if we’re looking to move to two a year. I can’t speak to whether or not there would be a need for funding for enforcement.
[1:35:30] My suspicion is probably not. Probably not as well. It’s just a matter of allocating those priorities. So not looking for any additional funding at this time. The redeployment of those crews for a single day is probably not problematic in terms of the rest of the city. It really has been the willingness to see this very important arterial roadway closed more frequently. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I am going to go to Councillor McAllister. He has indicated he’d like to answer. Please keep it as tight as you can to the amendment or to the question. I’m not going to count this to your time. Thank you through the chair. Yeah, Mr. Chair covered a lot in terms of I think hybrid is a very unique circumstance. I would be hard pressed to think of a road that feeds directly into the highway like that. If anyone’s ever driven on that stretch, you’re going from, you know, 100 down to 80 down to 50. So the speeds change quite quickly. It is a unique situation. We do have to close the road as Mr. indicated. So there are serious safety concerns there. It is a very unique situation.
[1:36:32] And I do think it differs from other parts of the city. And I think it deserves that consideration. Thank you. I saw Councillor Hillier’s thumb up. I don’t know if he was indicating he would like to speak. Oh, sorry, Councillor. My mistake. I am going to go to you in a second, but I do got to go back to Councillor Troso who posed the question. So I’m going to go back to Councillor Troso. And then I will go to Councillor Hillier when Councillor Troso is done. Go ahead, Councillor. Yes. The other part of my question was addressing the problem of people taking dumping material over to Highbury. If they think there’s going to be another cleanup, could somebody address that as well as the main point that I made about how this is a problem throughout the city, regardless of speed? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly with respect to a second cleanup in the fall attracting more illegal dumping. I don’t know that we’d see that necessarily. It’s something we have to monitor with our colleagues in enforcement. It’s hard to predict whether adding a second cleanup to a street for the year would generate a desire for people to say take more household waste mattresses, et cetera, to that location. We can keep an eye on that. You know, should we proceed with this motion as drafted? With respect to the city overall, we certainly do have a number of ways which residents and Councillors can contact us about cleanups. We appreciate them coming in through Service London because it really does help us manage our levels of service, whether it’s roadops who are doing routine cleaning, whether it is bulky items, pickup from scheduled bulky items from individuals who want them collected at their homes, missed garbage, any of those things. That data is really helpful for us in designing our beats and programs. So we encourage people to put those into Service London. And I assure you that all of our resources associated with cleaning our city, whether it’s mowing, roadops, solid waste, are fully deployed each year.
[1:38:27] Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Have we looked through the chair? Have we looked at the Service London numbers for where the complaints are coming from? Thank you. I’ll go to Ms. Chair again. Thank you, Mr. Chair. With response to this motion, we have not looked at a city-wide review where we have complaints with respect to unsightly and untidy roadsides or properties. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Would I be wrong in suggesting to the chair that if we’re going to give extra attention to the high-berry strip, we should at least do that review? Mr. Chair, that would be a significantly comprehensive review of where we have hot spots throughout the city. If you have a location of specific concern, please let us know and we can follow up on that location particularly. But to go through the entire city, relative to say traffic volumes and frequency of cleaning would be a many, many, many month undertaking. Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Okay. Well, I’ll refrain from making an amendment to an amendment if that’s even possible. I’m very skeptical about this. I’m going to support this because I appreciate the Councillor bringing this forward, but I’ll save those comments for the main motion. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Councillor Hiller, this is the amendment to the amendment. If you’d like wish to speak to this one, go ahead. Thank you. Yes. I’m just curious, from a staffing level, we’re looking at from around May till September that we actually have enough staff to accomplish this. I am not sure if that’s a long enough period in between those to actually do proper cleanups. Could I get a comment from staff? If that is correct, is that is when we have enough staff to do the job? Thank you, Councillor.
[1:40:14] I will go to Mr. Chair. So, correct. Under the collective agreement, we are able to bring our 107 temps on for 26 weeks. We generally start onboarding in April May, depending on the service area, it varies a little bit. In road ops, those folks tend to stay the 26 weeks. Park ops, which is part of the closure. We often lose more of those folks around Labor Day, many of your students. We can do this work without having the temps, but it may mean that the closures take a little bit longer because we’d have to work within the resources we have. It would be unlikely they were able to schedule these, say, for March and November. It likely will be May to sometime in late September. It would be probably the most practical use of our resources to get this done quickly and well. That said, we will include that in the report back to the motion pass.
[1:41:10] Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. The amendment to the amendment. I have exhausted the speaker’s list. Last call. Questions, comments, members, or visiting? Okay. Let’s call the question. Trust votes, yes. Those things about the motion carries five to zero. Okay. Now we are on the amended portion of the motion as amended. The amended amendment. That’s what we’re on. Okay. I have written here from that. Oh, I would need a mover for that, actually. So moved by Councillor McAllister, seconded by Councillor Cuddy, looking for a speaker’s list. Speaker’s list of the amended amendment. Okay. Call the question.
[1:42:12] Oh, so votes, yes. Those things about the motion carries five to zero. Okay. Now we’re on the motion as amended. I did have Councillor Trusso and Deputy Mary Lewis on the final motion as amended. So I’m going to go to, oh, we need a mover and a second there before we can go there. Okay. Councillor McAllister moved. Councillor Cuddy, seconded. I will go to just confirming that both Councillor Trusso and Deputy Mary Lewis are still wishing to speak to the the main as amended. Yep. Okay. Councillor Trusso, I have you first.
[1:42:55] Then Deputy Mary Lewis, go ahead. Thank you. Through the chair, I’m really up in the air about this and for now I’m just going to go ahead and vote for this. But I think for Council, I’m going to want to have a better understanding. What I’m going to really want is an assurance that this is not going to derogate from services provided to other parts of the city. I don’t want to see, I don’t want to see rival claimants in different parts of the city sort of compete for the limited resources that we have. But that’s what I have to say and I’ll say more at Council.
[1:43:37] Thank you very much. And I do appreciate the Council bringing this forward because it is a mess, but it’s a mess in a lot of places. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor and Deputy Mary Lewis, the main motion as amended. Go ahead. Thank you. So I’ll be supportive of this. I will take the opportunity to continue to have some discussions with staff and Councilam Councilor offline as well. What I will say, perhaps just, I hear he’s going to support it today anyway, but perhaps to convince Councilor Trust out a bit further, this really is a unique situation. And as Ms. Chair noted, this is the gateway to the city where we have this odd 100 kilometer an hour zone with ditches center running as well as side running, which you don’t see in other parts of the city. When you come up Wellington Road, there’s no center ditch median, same with Wonderland Road, side ditches on Wonderland, but there’s no center ditch.
[1:44:32] Even when you get out to Veterans Memorial Parkway, which is primarily more an industrial corridor, it’s a lot more shipping and an industrial traffic than the sort of residential traffic that we see on Highbury. Even there, you have a short stretch where there is some center ditch as it approaches the 401, but really that’s where the the clove relief exchanges are connecting. And as you move into the city, you lose that center ditch. So it is a unique situation. It’s been a sticking point the entire time I’ve been on Council. And what I would say is, quite honestly, at the end of the day, I think from Hamilton Road, all the way to the power coal plants, the province should be uploading the responsibilities for Highbury, that expressway, and particularly as they widen it in the years to come right from the 401 down to the power coal plants, I think that’s a discussion we need to have with them because it really is an expressway to access the 401 as much as anything else. And it’s not a unique or it is a unique situation compared to London’s other gateways, which serve much more a mix of traffic and have a different road design than what we see here. So it’s one of those ones where I think 40, 50 years ago, whenever it was that this expressway piece came in, I guess the administration of the day probably should have been a little tougher about requiring it to remain a provincial highway, but we are where we are. And so I do hope that that’s a discussion we can have with province in the years to come.
[1:46:09] But for now, we do have to address what is a little bit of a unique expressway into the city with with the challenges of 100 kilometer an hour speed limit where the road closures are required, where on some of our other roads, Wellington and Warren Cliff, you don’t have those same high speeds. And so spot cleaning and cleanups are easier to manage than they are on highberry apps. So I appreciate the discussion. I appreciate, particularly as an East End Councilor Councilor McAllister raising this, I know Councilor Hill here has been listening in, I know Councilor Cuddy is there in chambers. We here wrote it all the time from our residents, and so I do appreciate an initiative coming forward to hopefully find a way forward on this.
[1:46:49] Thank you Deputy Mayor. I have Councilor Trusso, you put your hand up again. So go ahead. You have only used 40 seconds on this one. So you got some time. Just to say that the Deputy Mayor’s comments just now were very helpful. Thank you. That’s what I that’s what I need to understand better. And we can we can continue this discussion. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I have Councillor McAllister. You have a full five minutes. Go ahead. Thank you and through you. I won’t take up too much time. Just want to thank the committee for the support on this and just, you know, express my thanks, especially from my ward. I know this impacts other wards. Everyone shares it. 4, 3, 2, we all have a bit of hybrid have main gateway to our city. And I mean, if any Councillor wants to grab a coffee and sit at that intersection, I’m more than happy to do that because this is an ongoing problem. And we really do need to have those increased cleanups. And I’m curious to see what we can come back with in terms of enforcement, because I think that would be appreciated as well. So thank you. Thank you, Councillor. Okay. Councillor Stevenson, go ahead. Thank you. I just wanted to quickly say I appreciate that we’re looking at this. I get a lot of messages too. People are disgusted with that section of the road and they are very upset about how it reflects on the city of London and the place that they call home. So I appreciate this. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I have exhausted the speaker’s list. So I’m going to give one last call members or visiting members. I have none. Okay. Let’s call the question. Trust the votes. Yes. Let’s think about the motion carries five to zero. All right. I have one more from Councillor McAllister. That’s item 4.3 with respect to the veteran public art display. I’m going to look to Councillor McAllister to put something on the floor. Go ahead. Thank you. And through the chair, again, my motion is in the correspondence and I will put that on the floor. We’re looking for a seconder. Seconded by Councillor Pribble.
[1:49:02] Okay. Looking for speakers list. Councillor McAllister. Go ahead. Thank you. Through the chair. It’s my hat trick motion for the day. And I appreciate the committee going through these. I think they’re all important issues. This one in particular, I think, is very timely with Remembrance Day tomorrow. This would be obviously for future work. But one of the things that I’ve been thinking about lately, we haven’t had any new veteran art displays in a number of years. As the veterans get older, some pass away. I think it’s important that we put our heads together to try to come up with ways to commemorate their service. And that doesn’t exclusively have to be on Remembrance Day. I’m looking to see whether we could have some, you know, permanent displays. Perhaps some of them would have to be temporary. But really, this is an exercise to engage with the veterans organizations and the public to see what they would like to see to recognize those who have served. I do have a question before I get too far down the line just in terms of what I’ve put in the motion so far. I am wondering about adding in a get involved portion for this. So I’m just looking to staff to see if that is something that we could add to the get involved site. Thank you, Councillor. I’m not sure where I’d go to answer that. Okay, Ms. Smith, go ahead for the get involved portion for this. Thank you. And through the chair, as you know, we have a city of London public art monument policy and every year through that or every couple of years we do public art. It can be in one place, multiple places, portable, and part of that is a community engagement process. So definitely we can work with community partners and the community to develop one or more pieces of public art. Thank you, Ms. Smith. Go ahead, Councillor.
[1:50:51] So through you and just to confirm, would you like me to add that in just to make sure that there is the get involved component? Thank you, Ms. Smith. Thank you. I wrote it down and I have my colleague Ms. Armistead here who is taking notes too. So we will make sure that we incorporate both online and in-person community engagement. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you. And I appreciate that. I think having that get involved feedback will be important. I do think obviously we need that veteran input. It would be great if we had, you know, the able-bodied veterans that could participate in this but recognizing, you know, there might be limitations with that. What I’ve included in my letter, I just want to speak from kind of my own experience. My grandfather was an avid photographer in the Second World War. He documented so much and really just looking at his photographs and gives you a real window into his experiences. And I’ve done my best in terms of documenting that. But I think a lot of families have, you know, whether it’s photographs, momentos, stories they want to share. I think we could do something really creative in terms of, you know, what Londoners have seen over the years in terms of their family members and what they’ve experienced in their service. I also wanted to recognize Parkwood Hospital, their veterans wing over the years. They’ve done so much good work in terms of their art program. My grandfather found a particularly therapeutic. He had spent obviously most of his time with photography but having the ability to try different art forms, I think, was very helpful and you really appreciated it. And I know Parkwood does a great job with their vets, so I just want to, again, thank them for that. But really, I want to put this out to the community to see what they would like to see.
[1:52:38] Again, you know, we spent a lot of time with World War I, World War II. We have, you know, Korean vets, peacekeepers, even Afghanistan. I think it would be interesting to see what the community might want to see in terms of recognizing those who have served in that conflict as well. So I’ll leave my comments there. I’m curious to see what my colleagues have to say, but I think this is something that we should explore. And I think the public would have a lot of great ideas and the veterans themselves, I’m sure, have input they would like to share with us. Thanks, Councillor. Thank you for your comments. And I’d love to see those pictures if you would be willing to share. I have Councillor Lewis, or sorry, Deputy Mayor Lewis and Councillor Trussell next. So go ahead, Deputy Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do recognize Councillor Trussell as a member of the committee. So if you do wish to go to him first, I will yield or I can speak now and thank you, Deputy Mayor, you’re correct. Councillor Trussell, if you wish to speak first, go ahead as a member of the committee procedurally. That is a correct way to go. So go ahead. Okay, just really briefly, as long as this is about public art, I would like to see the Arts Council consulted on this. They may have some ideas about different types of installations that might incorporate some of this work. I don’t think I don’t think it’s necessary to amend the motion. I just I think that in your in your notes, you can just include consultation with the Arts Council. And that’s that’s all I have to say about this. Thank you for bringing this forward. Thank you, Councillor. Miss Smith has indicated she’d like to respond.
[1:54:17] Look, go ahead. Thank you. And definitely through through the through our area, we have a purchase of service agreement with the London Arts Council. So we do all our public art and all our engagement with the London Arts Council. Thank you, Miss Smith. Go ahead, Councillor. That’s all. Thank you. Thank you. Deputy Mayor, you’re next. Go ahead. Great. Thank you, Chair. And through you, first of all, I will say thank you very much to Councillor Callister for for having me and his office earlier today to share some of those photos. They truly are amazing and impactful and I’d encourage colleagues if Councillor McAllister is willing to stop by and take a look. They’re really a snapshot of history that is really well impactful is the word I’m going to use. But moving on from that, I do appreciate this motion coming forward and I want to share a little bit of background because I know probably a number of you have been receiving as we do every year.
[1:55:22] And again, I’ve seen every year for the last seven years, emails asking for us to install a veteran’s crosswalk. And I’ve seen a number of other communities advance that. However, I do want to share with colleagues for your information because I think it’s relevant to this motion. In 2023, sorry, in 2022, early in 2022, Mayor Holder and myself actually had the presidents of all of the local Legion branches in his office for a meeting discussing this and looking at whether or not we could go forward. It was the second meeting of that type. And in addition to the legions, we also had a representative I believe from the 427 wing and one of the other, the ANAF associations as well. There is not in the veterans community unanimous support for those crosswalks. There are those who feel that while the poppy itself is copyrighted to the Legion, the image of the unknown soldier, there are those in the veterans community who feel it’s disrespectful to have vehicles driving over that image every day. And as much as they look great when they’re first installed colleagues, we can even look out at the crosswalks at the corner of Dufferton and Wellington here. And we see how the color deteriorates with age on the crosswalks that are there right now for different causes. And when it comes to our veterans, I think we want to be mindful of the fact that if we’re not able to keep them in good shape, it’s not a really great tribute. I really like this motion better because when when we had talked to the legions, there was not unanimous support, but there was some opposition to the crosswalk idea.
[1:57:05] This motion speaks more to public art. And I think that that is a much more appropriate way to move forward, whether we are looking at perhaps a mural on the Victoria Park fan shell or whatever approach that that may take. I know we’ve been doing some mural projects at our community centers. It would be nice to have tributes that are visible across the city rather than just in one location like Victoria Park. I would also encourage colleagues if they’re so inclined to be involved and support the work that’s happening on the Battle of the Atlantic Memorial Phase Two down at each MCS Prevo or within a plug as well for Ward 9 and 10 where the Spring Bank Park location has been identified. And former mayor holders actually working on a committee with members of the Byron Legion and Padre Frank Vance on a new memorial there that we are hoping this year will be the last year that Commissioner’s Road is closed for Remembrance Day so that the service can be held in the park at a proper memorial rather than closing the roads and creating the veterans through the streets of Byron. So there are a number of monument installs. Of course I was very heavily involved in the Holy Roller Restoration Project. We’ve got some great features around the city, the RCR Museum, the first Azars Museum. There’s a lot of military history here. Just last week, several of us went after council to the armories where the first Azars flag was raised for the first time since 1978 to mark that building’s 120th anniversary. I think if there’s other opportunities to pursue public art that is worth examining. I think that there is a real opportunity here in some of our other community spaces working in partnership and hopefully with some local artists as well. But to me the most important part of this is I appreciate the community enthusiasm but we should always keep in mind with regard to veterans that there is one organization chartered by the federal government of Canada to represent and speak on behalf of veterans in our country and that’s the Royal Canadian Legion. So it’s very very critical that they are involved and that veterans themselves have a say because I don’t want good intent to inadvertently create something that the veterans themselves find objectionable or disrespectful. Not out of any intention for it to be so but just through good intentions going awry and not all of us know all the history and we don’t necessarily understand where veterans lived experience through war and peacekeeping conflicts may have led to something not being appropriate in their view when the rest of us might think it’s a perfectly normal thing and an appropriate tribute. So really really critical on this item that we have to buy in from the Legion and our veterans community but I do appreciate absolutely the good intent and I appreciate that we’re looking beyond just crosswalks and we’re looking to where we can install public art and that to me is is where I want to go so I can support this and and I will you know share with staff and I know that they’ll hear this through their consultations as well. I do want us to look at locations around the city not just you know a location in the downtown or in the west end or in the east end. I would like to have a tribute in neighborhoods right across our city so I think there’s an opportunity to do that as we move forward and I’ll thank councilor for bringing forward this motion. Thank you deputy mayor you were a minute over but I wasn’t going to stop you on the comments you were making. Council privilege.
[2:00:44] I’ll be slightly shorter tremendously in support of this motion and I just want to say that I did have an opportunity to see various World War II elections in Europe and in North America. I’ll have to say this is if not the best one of the best I’ve seen so you have the opportunity please do ask council make a list to share those with you because it’s really truly incredible. Thank you. Thank you council privilege. I will right after this and I have full support of the motion. I appreciate it. Councilor that looks like I’ve exhausted the speakers list so I’m gonna give one last call for anybody. Okay let’s call the question closing the vote yes closing the vote the motion carries 5 to 0. Okay we have our pulled item 2.5 it’s the blue box transition final year part b update looking to uh committee for a motion. Chair sorry to interrupt before you move on to this item I just want to advise that I’m gonna have to leave the meeting why 3 p.m.
[2:02:03] meeting is about to start. Okay thank you for letting me know deputy mayor. Councilor Troso go ahead. Thank you. Thank you very much. I’ve circulated an amendment in advance which I don’t think is contrary because the first part of the motion that’s in the um it’s in the um oh I should just say I’d like to move I’d like to move the motion that I that I submitted including part a which is already in the staff report as well as part b and part c and I’d like to make that as a motion.
[2:02:40] Okay we’ll put that up in e-scribe. I’ll let committee read it and I’ll look for a seconder. Maybe if you recycle your your e-scribe you will see the motion. This is moved by councilor Troso and then I would need a seconder for a seconder. Okay I’ll second that. Okay councilor I’ll have you first on the speakers. Let’s go ahead. That the um staff report needed needed a little bit more um information in order to um really deal with this very very problematic issue which I will say in my opinion is not the fault of the city. This is something that we’re responding to as a result of a provincial regulation which just removes certain certain organizations from from the ability to participate in this program. Um if you look at page 106 though there there are two options that are given and I’m glad that the staff included these two options in the report but what what I’m trying to do with this motion is is suggest that um I’m going in the direction of option one and I think before we um give up on the ideas in option one I’d like to get a little bit more information and that’s exactly what I’m trying to do in this motion.
[2:05:46] The second part of the motion is is to actually engage in advocacy work to um ask the province through the ministry to um remove um the part of the regulation that um takes away the ability of uh the these uh nonprofits small businesses uh churches uh to participate in the recycling program the blue the blue box program. So I think um getting a staff report back which by the way would go to the infrastructure and corporate services committee since we’re since we’re changing jurisdiction but I think it would be important for us to get that information before we just sort of um just receiving the staff report without saying anything else seems like it’s not it’s not satisfactory and I think we need to take an additional step and actually say something and I feel very strongly that we want to continue to try to provide these services because we’ve made a lot of progress we’ve made a lot of progress in our blue box program program we we’re making progress in our diversion goals and I’m I’m really worried that without without more we’re going to be backtracking through again through no fault of our own but we need to do as a city what we can do to avoid to avoid the uh bad effects I think of uh of this regulation unless we try to ameliorate the hardship that the non-profits and the other groups are facing and I think with that I’ll leave it um in my in my in the preface to my um to my motion I lay I lay out my my reasoning and I think I’ve just repeated it so with that I’d love to hear what other members of the committee thank you thank you counselor okay I will look for members of committee first and then visiting members for any questions or comments on my callister go ahead thank you and through the chair I know it’s mentioned in terms in the report with what’s being presented for the budget case um so I mean for my point of view should should we not refer this to the budget uh discussion thank you counselor that’s a good question I will go to miss share uh certainly I can and can start mr chair this is a report that is being received for information because there is a budget case that proposed potentially removing this optional service from the 535 non-eligible sources that were currently funded under blue box at this point with the requirements from the province that this stream of waste be handled entirely separately from the residential stream being picked up through circular materials Ontario and they cannot become mingled in trucks or in processing this service not needs to cease at the end of this year and will cease at the end of this year if there is a desire to explore a future new program where in the city would provide some sort of collection and processing service that would be the subject of a report back and a future budget decision we will not be able to deliver that service for the funds that are available in the budget reduction that is to be considered at budget it will be substantially more expensive the reason we’re able to do it now at the cost that we do it now is we’re currently collecting next door but because we cannot put the blue bin waste from these businesses and nonprofits and places of worship in the same truck or through the same processing system it will be an entirely separate system that will require contractors so I think budget is the place to make a decision although the decision as to whether or not we give up the funding under the current program is made by the decisions by the province the decision really at hand for councils do you wish for us to explore an entirely separate a new program for non eligible sources for a future budget year thank you go ahead thank you and through the chair I just I mean I was going to share these thoughts of the budget process but I guess I’ll share them here as well I do appreciate what the council is trying to do here because I mean my concern is having some sort of an interim system and recognizing the impact this is going to have on you know not just the non-profits with places of worship small businesses and you know I hear from all of those in terms of the the stress they’re feeling financially right now recognizing this would still be put back on to us as a cost but I do think we need to explore all of our options here I’m wanting to have a more full some discussion of budget about this but if the council is just looking for a report back and really there’s there’s nothing saying we are going to do this but it’s more giving us you know more details in terms of what that might look like I think did something we should explore because my personal feeling is I don’t want to cease operations of something and then just have complete chaos with a garbage as we just discussed about earlier I don’t want to add to those issues and I think having something in place would be good either way on whatever we decide so I appreciate what the councilor is trying to do here thank you counselor okay I have counselor Frank with her hand up but I’m just going to look to members of committee first okay good counselor Frank go ahead thank you very much I had one question a follow-up through the chair just in regards to the comments just previously made by staff I’m wondering so we have to have an entirely separate system because the current system that we’re going to be using will only be picking up residential and so I’m wondering is there an ability for us to contract out like a specific amount so the concept being that we know I think it’s 531 small businesses and nonprofits will be like left in the lurch can we not go to the recycling provider and say we’d like to pay you for 531 people like businesses to get picked up and then that way it’s the same the same system the same services that we don’t have to send out separate trucks for businesses that we do for residential anyway I’m just asking are we allowed to ask them to create that contract with them thank you counselor miss share so thank you mr. chair we have been very active on this file I should note provincially through the regional public works commissioners of Ontario and municipal waste association we have asked the province exactly that are we able to continue to fund the contracted operator and processors to provide the service to those currently receiving it at a fee and the answer is clearly no they need to be separate streams and in fact the processing capacity question cannot be answered until after the residential processing capacity questions are answered and sometime in early in the new year so they’re not even in a position where we’re able to see if that capacity for processing is available in the local system until sometime in 2026 so unfortunately no there’s not an ability to pay the cmo’s contracted operator for both collection and processing to continue this service in the interim thank you go ahead counselor thank you and can I just follow up so when they say no do they offer an explanation because I don’t understand why a consortium wouldn’t want more money I’m just confused as to why the province would not allow businesses to make money so I don’t know if they provide rationale after they say no thank you look up for Russia go ahead mr. chair I know that was not explicit in the communications back and I wouldn’t want to speculate as motivation thank you go ahead counselor thank you yes it appears to me then I feel like for the sake of efficiency from a recycling perspective but also financial efficiency for the city it would be really good I think if we could resolve this politically and perhaps ask the mayor or whoever else would be doing advocacy on behalf sounds like staff doing advocacy through their group which is great but I also feel like this should maybe should be elevated as well because to me it seems like a no-brainer to allow for this but perhaps I don’t understand the provincial requirements that they’re seeking so maybe it’s something I’ll take offline to see if there’s way we could do some some lobbying because this just doesn’t make any sense to me and I’ve already been approached by many businesses in my community who are quite upset so and not at staff but at the provincial decision to do this so I’ll take that offline thank you counselor and I would say as a seconder and the mover listening there could be a change to the advocacy piece to add the mayor in there I believe but I will look to the mover for that if he puts his hand up I have counselor Hawkins next and then counselor Stevenson go ahead yeah thank you and maybe as a follow-up to counselor Frank’s comments I’d be happy to take this to AMO as well I know in the past we’ve done advocacy around the blue box and I think we need to continue not only the advocacy part but making sure that the province is aware of the challenges that we are having here as a municipality I think a report back will give us some extra information I do have a question through you Mr. Chair the importance of getting more information and not leaving these 535 businesses just stranded and not being able to give them information but how is this going to impact our residential program I’m not sure I know in the report it does mention that the circular materials could make changes to the programming in the future so I would like more information just understanding how this all works and the consequences to this as well so maybe through you Mr. Chair to staff just a bit of information on what can happen to our residential program as well thank you counselor I’ll go to Ms. Chair I certainly can start Mr. Chamber and Ms. Chambers and Mr. Loser also online at this point we’re not anticipating significant changes to the residential blue box program there are some potential actually improved inclusions as to some materials that may be accepted and the primary change is that concerns related to that program will be directed now through CMO to their call lines but we have been through the transition period managing that at the city and as of January 1 any concerns from residents related to that program go strictly to CMO because there will no longer be a municipal role in that space as to future changes as to what may be included in the blue box collection frequency those sorts of issues I can certainly say that RIPCO municipal waste association and AMO are very active on those files and I wouldn’t be able to speculate as to whether or not there are other plan changes between the province and CMO thank you go ahead counselor yeah thank you for that response that’s why information to council is really I think important because it’s the businesses it’s those or organizations out there that are going to suffer the consequences and we need to be able to have some explanation so would encourage the committee to get further information as we go through this there are many many changes going on right now with municipalities and I just want to be prepared thank you thank you counselor I have myself next on the speakers list and counselor Stevenson I’d like to just hand over the chair to counselor McAllister recognizing counselor for go ahead when you’re ready thank you presiding officer appreciate the conversation so far I’ll just keep it brief I did hear some comments from counselor frank and counselor Hopkins on some other types of advocacy that we could bring through whether it’s requesting the mayor to communicate with the ministry or AMO so I do have a motion that I’d like an amendment I’d like to bring forward and the amendment would be to request the mayor to advocate on behalf of this and for AMO to also be involved in the discussion so if the clerk can put that into e scribe so you can read it and I’d appreciate a seconder okay the counselor is put forward an amendment looking for a seconder oh saying we’ll second okay our counselor trusso sorry okay so that amendment is now on the floor I’ll give um clerk some moment uh but then okay it should be up looking for a discussion on the amendment I’m not seeing any speakers are there any online no okay we’ll put that to a vote process votes yes sorry purple closing the vote the motion carries five to zero no I can continue or do you want okay it looks like you need a your voice needs a break okay so uh I will maintain the chair here uh counselor for did you have anything else you wanted to put forward okay you do good with your time I do have uh counselor purple your next go ahead sorry go ahead counselor steamer thank you very much it might be the same question as counselor frank I’m not sure but do we have an explanation for the public as to why the separation between residential and commercial like just for the public and my awareness is there a rationale for that given by the province I through the chair the CMOs in the municipal CMO and previously the municipalities have never been obliged to provide any sort of recycling services to business to ICI the institutional commercial industrial sector of course many of us have on our residential roots because it was easy enough just to pick it up I should note that there are many many businesses in ICI categories that do not receive this service from the city of London because they’re not on a residential collection route my understanding is the desire is to ensure the costs are entirely separate and not commingled with commingled waste but as to why there’s no ability to continue to pay for existing customers on the existing routes that currently receive this uh no we have not received in a more detailed explanation sorry counselor I’m not trying to cut off your time but I just needed a motion for uh the motion as amended we’re in a second or four we continue with questions sorry okay counselor Ferra and counselor Trasso did you want okay I will second the motion just so we can continue the conversation okay go ahead counselor Stephen Singh continue the question thank you I appreciate that that that helps um and then I just want to confirm am I reading this right that really under no scenario are we going to have services available for businesses uh January 1st 2026 that it looks like it’s 2027 in the next year multi-year budget through you mr. presiding officer that is correct services would need to see so at the end of this year and by the time we’re able to collect information from potential contracted operators which the big piece is processing capacity conversations can’t even start until sometime in the new year we would be in a position where I’d likely it’ll put us into q2 and next year’s an election year so that decision would have to go to multi-year budget for 2027 thank you not great news but I just just want to confirm that also um we talk about how it’s going to fall on the small businesses and be an extra cost burden to them but with the economic realities is it not more likely that the recyclables are going to end up in the landfill uh through you mr. presiding officers that is certainly our concern is that these these items will end up in the landfill as much as they likely do with comparable small businesses that do not receive this service from the city thank you just to follow up then do we have any idea of what the impact of that would be as we talk about the landfill lifetime and our goals towards increasing the you know reducing the amount that’s going to the landfill do we know if this is going to play a significant role thank you mr.
[2:22:57] presiding officer given the number of small businesses involved relative to the large number of users of all sizes of the landfill it’s likely non incremental but as a matter of principle it really is about diverting waste that can be diverted into the circular economy and ensuring that that energy expenditure uh and the work that goes into creating those products is is not lost thank you a final follow-up is um it talks here about it’s going to impact some city facilities as well so I just wondered if this city has a plan for what we’re going to do with our recyclables January 1st I thank you we are still working on the details for how we will be managing our own facilities where we do have recycling within city facilities largely recreation centers I just want to clarify it is it won’t be the landfill it’ll be some other alternative I threw you mr. Chair I yes that would be our desires to find a way to manage that ourselves within our own facilities so it is not going to the landfill thank you that detail will matter so thanks okay thank you Councillor Stevenson I have Councillor Permour your next go ahead thank you and through the chair to the staff and actually solve the questions for all the answer by mr. Chair I just want to go straight again um it was the options because one of the reports states that the earlier will be after January 1st 2026 and you did mention that it will be more like Q2 2026 but the determination if they have the capacity or not would it be based on let’s say like they used to the entire pickup was five tons now it’s four tons so the difference is one ton and if the capacity is there I’m just trying to figure out even if it’s Q2 2026 how will that how will the organization will determine it if they have the capacity through you mr. Chair mr. Chair I don’t know exactly how each of the processes will determine their catchment area and capacity as that is being something regulated between the province and circular materials Ontario I certainly what we’ve heard is that the desire is for processing capacity to be allocated to the legislative service which is residential and residual capacity then could be sold to the market where it exists as some municipalities have not transitioned their blue box program to produce their pay the demand from other municipalities in the area for residential processing capacity won’t likely be known until sometime early next year the methodology piece we do not have I sort of a window into how they’re doing the math okay thank you for that and one of the things I want to mention there are many businesses in London that currently don’t have the blue box option which you have already mentioned when I look at this what’s in front of us and correct me if I’m wrong I don’t see any deadline deadline for the staff to come back to us so if it’s based on the answers you have just given me what do you think it’s kind of reasonable for you for the staff to come back mr. presiding officer the challenge in answering this is that we don’t have all the information from either the province of circular materials I don’t see us coming back prior to sometime in q2 and that will depend on the availability of information with respect to processing capacity in the region relative to the residential priority processing so I don’t see it as likely that we are able to come back until probably submit sometime mid-year next year okay thank you no more questions okay thank you Councillor Per beau looking for other speakers on this topic may members visiting okay not seeing any then we’ll open this we’re voting answer trust style oh trust the votes yes seeing the vote the motion carries five to zero okay thank you everyone and I will hand the chair back to Councillor Ferra thank you presiding officer okay that’s it for the items for direction with the last item from the consent next is our confidential so I am going to look for a motion to go into confidential session this is for an item as pertains to solicitor client privilege it’s a matter pertaining to advice on the housing collaboration initiative that is subject to solicitor client privilege including communications necessary for that purpose moved by Councillor McAllister seconded by Councillor Cuddy vote what’s up votes yes listening to vote the motion carries five to zero thank you we’ll just wait for everybody to clear out and lock down okay we are back in the public session I’m going to look to my vice chair to report out go ahead thank you to the chair reporting that we wanted to close session and the progress was made for the item we went to close session thank you okay so we have a last item and that’s 2.8 the housing collaborative initiative updated financials and project conclusion we have an added for that I will be looking for committee to put a motion down Councillor Cuddy has left the meeting we still have quorum okay looking to committee I’ll put the receipt of it on the floor for the staff recommendation okay looking for a seconder seconded by Councillor trussle okay looking for speakers list first visiting okay Councillor go ahead McAllister go ahead thank you through the chair recognizing and going back a few years obviously it was 23 last time he talked about this I mean I’m disappointed I said this a few years ago too in terms of you know the amount of time and money that’s gone into this not ending up with a final product and so I mean my first question to staff is just you know over the course of this the lessons learned and perhaps if I could speak more to you know what happened and what we’ve learned from this and what we what we will do moving forward to prevent something like this from happening again thank you Councillor go to Mr. Felberg sure and thank you and through you Mr. Chair so obviously a number of lessons learned over this the it is a significant project significant amount of time to do this work what’s really important is that we follow good project management practices especially on information technology projects going out and doing really detailed business requirements document documentation business readiness and proper project planning is something really important and something that we strive to do through our technology investment strategy so really building that into what we do as we move forward on that that’s really key and I think we’ve done a good job as a municipality and really creating those expectations with civic administration and when we’re bringing in new software projects the other thing I would also say is when we’re working with seven six or seven other municipalities where we all have decision-making authority where we are all one vote when it comes to making decisions on a project like this of this magnitude that may not be the best model it there is some value in the city taking on its own activities and establishing its own scope and moving forward and having some control over the contractual obligations that we establish and allows council to have some confidence that civic administration is moving forward in a judicious and prudent way as we’re making those decisions I would say that the complexity of those six or seven municipalities over the time that really has added to it that is the key component that has challenged this project at various points there were decisions made by the group that may not have been in the best interest of London but they were in the best interest of the HCI so definitely some things for us to take away and look at for next time thank you go ahead thank you to the chair and yeah I was wondering if you could speak a bit more in terms of just the logic behind like a shared service or the shared software I mean because my understanding is based on my experience with you know with community housing anyways was the intention originally to try to have a system that we could all input data into or was it more that you’re trying to do cost efficiencies in terms of all of us pitching in for software that we eventually might use thank you go ahead through you mr chair like the the main purpose of the software was to support service managers across the province I was reading one of the 2014 reports and it talked about the indifference of the province in creating a standardized reporting model so this was a way for us as the service managers take action and be proactive and establish that in order to report back to the province which we have to do annually thank you go ahead back council thank you and through the chair I’m also wondering in terms of the timeline you know have we ever tried to do something in this magnitude with as many partners again there will be lessons learned from that but I’m just wondering in terms of the length of time and scheduled check-ins and seeing progress to date where were the red flags in terms of okay we’re not seeing the product that necessarily benefits us and recognizing what you just said in terms of the consortium had a number of things that they were adding into it which might have caused issues but I’m just wondering if you could speak a bit more to that thank you mr may this go ahead through the chair just want to be very open with with committee and council here this has been a very long-term project what we are involvement from a senior leadership team here has really been involved in the last two years so we can’t speak very specifically about what’s happened over that 10-year period there’s been a lot of staff chains there’s been eight municipalities total that have been involved so we can answer to all those specifics but that last two years we absolutely can answer those type of questions thank you go ahead councilor thank you and through you and yeah my my concern kind of speaks to that that I’m hoping you know moving forward if we’re going to take on something of this magnitude and recognizing the importance of it I totally get the intention here especially as service managers and it’s a big big ask for province wide it would be great if the province had something we could all work with but just recognizing that like we have to have those regular check-ins and I think that kind of speaks to some of the issues we saw yes there were staff changeover but I think at some point the flag needed to be raised to say hey this is taking too long and so I am hoping those are in place now I mean I wish it was caught sooner but I’ll leave my comments there for now I’m curious to hear what my colleagues have to say but I just wanted to share my concerns thank you thank you councilor okay I have no one else on the speakers list members are visiting members so I’m going to look for members first and then I’m going to go to visiting members okay town slur Stevenson go ahead thank you um the question that I really have is and I understand that staff were saying there were staff changes and it’s only really been looked at since 2023 but when you when we go back and read the documents from 2011 2014 2015 this was presented to council as a $265,000 project that would start showing results immediately and would be fully implemented within two years and eight years went by and you know I also understand that things can happen and just continue to roll along without potentially the oversight that we would all like to see but in this specific case the contract with the consultant was signed every two years so someone has made an intentional decision to re-engage with this consultant repeatedly um on a project that went on for you know okay we all know with software you say two years you double it right so four but at year six at year eight what um what are the processes in play at civic administration around an external consultant contract like that such that there could be that this could happen point of order point of order go ahead councilor um I’m concerned that while the answer to that question does not necessarily involve legal advice I’m concerned that it’s closely enough intertwined with matters that would be appropriate for closed session uh that we we might not want to prejudice ourselves and I don’t know how to put that appropriately but I I really think this should this should stop because I don’t I don’t I don’t want statements being made that are exculpatory I I just am very concerned about where this is going right thank you just a second okay I will that staff can generally answer questions about oversight um with the comments about intention of decisions I would ask the counselor to just watch the language on intent but I’ll go to staff for the general answer through the chair so any type of an amendment to an agreement or say signing agreement would be under our procurement policy so I’d want to ensure that we have our procurement staff here to speak to it um any individuals that were involved with those agreements are no longer with the corporation to be able to answer and provide us that uh that background thank you counselor go ahead thank you so just to clarify that the people involved with the signing of those contracts even from um a management perspective or no longer with the corporation go ahead a point a point a point of order if if they were authorized to bind the corporation it doesn’t matter whether they’re still with the corporation or not and I’m really worried that we’re going off into an expedition to find fault and I do not want to do that right now thank you counselor I will agree with that point of order um counselor just keep the questions as tight as you can to the motion on the floor well there’s a report before us that I have questions around and so it says on page 145 at the bottom of table table two that this governance group services consultant uh reallocation of costs it says that um until the agreement was renegotiated in 2023 so in 2023 knowing that all the things that we said about legislative changes in project scope and the fact that had gone long the agreement was renegotiated in 2023 so I just wanting to understand this better thank you counselor I will go to staff for that go ahead mr. Felbert uh thank you three mr. Chair so that uh that point in time is when York Region left the uh left the consortium so the fees needed to be renegotiated in order to reallocate them across the remaining members thank you go ahead thank you well not to quibble over a year but we heard it was 2022 that York left and in 2023 when it was renegotiated we did sign a contract with BSA in 2023 for another two years thank you go ahead thank you three mr. Chair um so York Region provided their notice in uh in 2022 there was six months in 2023 the contract was renegotiated uh yep I agree that also BSA received um a um an extension to their contract for an additional two years in 2023 uh every member of the consortium was required to provide a project lead uh on behalf of the um the member municipality some municipalities chose to hire uh staff the city of London determined at some point during the process that they were going to rely on the consulting services so our our contribution to the HCI and uh to provide that project coordinator was through that consultant so therefore because the project was not closed out in 2023 we carried on and renewed that contract thank you go ahead counselor thank you I understand you know at this point all we’re trying to do is create as much value as we can in this experience to help us going forward right um but what I am concerned about is that you know one of the things that the um report mentions is with you know that one of the challenges was that it was without council oversight which I agree but what about city staff oversight right like what about to me there’s a few things that get to happen here one is within civic administration what can they do to improve things so that this doesn’t happen going forward there’s also the council piece of what policies can we put in place so that to ensure that future councils have an opportunity to keep an eye on long-term projects that inevitably things happen and uh you know they go astray the um this is a difficult one because from a taxpayer perspective it’s a huge amount of money the vast majority counselor sorry I should have told you you had a minute to go um you’re over a minute uh if you want to continue I’m looking for a motion to extend your speaking time by however minutes you might think because you’re at 507 two minutes please okay looking for a motion for two minutes to extend moved by counselor cripple second by counselor callister let’s yeah okay let’s just give uh the clerk a second recycle your e-scribe and let’s call the question also about no okay counselor you have two minutes starting now thank you I’ll focus on um going forward so can you tell us a little bit about in 2011 there was a need for IT solutions so can you tell us like our civic administration still using excel are there areas uh that were initially intended to be computerized that are still yet to be updated thank you go ahead thank you and through you mr chair so we have uh we do have the software system right now that we use to manage our wait list and that has an online portal which we will continue to use and we’ve been able to uh um have some enhancements for that as far as some of the reporting goes as noted it talks about some of the changes to regulations and legislation one of the big ones was earlier today at our at this meeting where we talked about the two service agreements for the two new providers so that allows us to change some of the reporting requirements in the way that we do some of the tracking one of the key parts about that and one of the modules was a financial management module which also included some information sorry financial management module of the hdi software um provides financial information through our building condition assessment work that we do on the service agreements through the work on financial planning that we do and some of the board governance reviews that we do in order to establish a service agreement we’re able to collect that information we’re able to use excel excel has come a long way since 2011 um we’re able to use ai we’re able to use power bi we’re able to use a number of other tools that we have at our fingertips through the microsoft suite that the city uses so there are opportunities for us to automate and we have been taking action to do that already the yardi product provides us with significant value and it’s it’s also a product that all of our uh many of our nonprofits use and lmch use for their property management and their uh their tenants as well so um all of these things are embedded in the system today and um we’re we’re comfortable that moving forward in this way will not be a hindrance to the to the sector thank you go ahead counselor in the conclusion it said that the processes led to substantial internal improvements in governance accountability and transparency can you share some of those with us thank you go ahead so we we through you mr chair we do have as you know a continuous improvement model here at the city of london we actually um embedded in a continuous improvement staff member within municipal housing industrial development we work actively and we are working on a number of different um improvements across the sector including things like our waitlist looking at some of our capital improvements um we’re also working with as i mentioned earlier today working with different boards in order to support them and help them improve the quality of their oversight on the nonprofits as well those are just a couple off the top of my head but happy to explore more with you if you have some ideas on where we can improve thank you go ahead thank you in terms of updates to council was there any consideration of doing that with the um co-op board of housing that there would be reports back to council over that 20 year period thank you go ahead thank you and through you mr chair absolutely that’s something we can explore with you we’re actually working on a motion and some language for you ahead of council to support some of the questions you had earlier today thank you go ahead counselor um i just want to make a comment to colleagues i circulated a letter i will be bringing forward at council a request to forward this to governance working group i think there’s a piece for civic administration there’s also a piece for council to put into into policy boundaries that will uh protect the uh finances of taxpayers and the city of land and going forward thank you okay uh i don’t have anybody else on my speakers list oh council privilege go ahead you have five minutes you do go ahead thank you so to chair to the staff um thank you for the additional report on the polysenic government improvements the certainty of four points if i do go through them and if i look at kind of moving forward the the proposal that our staff is considered certainly would be uh closed the gaps that happened during the certain things since 2011 my question is this and i know in the report it’s as in a man enhancements have been identified for councils ongoing consideration so i have two questions the first one is on ongoing consideration when actually we would approve these for example four initiatives that i inform us that’s point one point two what are the opportunities let’s say if we come back with in addition to these four would it be the best against through this committee or would it be better through the government’s work working group thank you thank you just just a second uh okay go ahead to chair could you clarify which four you’re talking about specifically apologies the forum mentioning is regular reporting for delegated or multi-year projects disclosure of amendment agreements consultant engagement reporting enhance project oversight framework because if i do analyze it without reading all four of them that certainly would close the gaps that happen during the during the process since 2011 which i think they are very uh they are very good strong if i look at the future they certainly are proactive and above its states have been identified for councils ongoing consideration so when the consideration would become actually uh our policy our bylaw point one and point two if we had any additional to add will be the best path forward thank you counselor i’ll go to mr valbert go ahead through you mr sure thank you appreciate that um so the the tiz process or the technology investment strategy as i as i noted before has a very defined business requirements business readiness project planning methodology and through that there are certain gates that we have to reach in order to take certain things uh for approval in addition um so if council is looking for specific timing on a certain number of reports per year perhaps it’s annually biannually uh that there would be an opportunity when we bring different procurements or different business cases or business plans forward for us to refine those and provide uh get guidance from council on how they want to see that reporting um at this time i would say that municipal housing doesn’t have any plans to implement any new software um however through that tiz process and through those um through the the it work that we do we do create we have a robust process robust project planning process thank you go ahead counselor i don’t know if any additional questions for no thank you all right thank you all right i’m looking for uh members or visiting numbers for any additional questions or comments i have your time so if you would like to speak i can tell you how much you got left otherwise i’ve exhausted my speakers list okay i’ve done okay let’s call the question counselor pribble answer pribble closing the vote the motion carries four to zero okay so uh that is it for our pulled items uh so next um we’re in for adjournment so looking for a motion to adjourn with by counsel mccallister seconded by counselor trussell this is by hand all those in favor of adjournment Supposed that motion carries. We’re adjourned.